Just got my Sale USAuthentic A2 in--Not bad.

[PaulGT3]

Before I met B-man 2 and got my first Goodwear A2 I bought a sale 44 HH A2.
Well there was a mistake, and I just got it a couple weeks after I got the GW.
After listening to you guys here (dont bother opening it, Just send it straight back, etc etc)
I was expecting a pot holder. Well to be honest looking at the two side by side, Sauls
jacket is pretty nice. You can see the quality difference. But let me say I bought a sale jacket.
It was $285. Its heavier than the GW by a pound. The GW I got from bman2 already had some
style to it and the USA is new. But its a very nice coat. Its much heavier. ALmost a mid weight
as opposed to a light weight flying jacket. It reminds me more of a motorcycling jacket in thickness.
I think its a nice alternative if you cant afford the $1600 for a GW, I think the $480 USA is not a bad choice
and even better at $285 shipped which is what I got.
I think if you put these two together to a newbie they might pick the wrong coat. If you showed
some one these two and said one is $1600 and one is $1000 they might understand but its hard to
see $1000 difference. I have two more GWs coming in tomorrow. But I am a newbie only started this
in Nov so what do I know?

 

[Andreart]

sound like you have some coin, why not get some originals and skip the repo crap?

 

[Skip]

Paul Maybe you could do a side by side photo comparison. It could be useful for those here who may want to see the difference.

I had US A G1 once and it wasn't bad, but after a few originals never wore it so sold on. If I'd discovered this forum back then could have saved some dosh and spent it on a better jacket in the first place, but that's only because I wanted a closer accuracy. It was a comfy jacket and they arent bad, but I was spoiled by the originals...

 

[PaulGT3]

Andreart, I have a couple of things working against me.
No knowledge on the subject. And being an engineer I have no problem saying when I dont know anything on a subject.
I am afraid of buying something like that and wearing it. I think (as a newbie) You better know what your buying
before wearing a piece of history. Its like all my Ferrari buddies. No matter what year or model they have, they all
have 2,990 miles on them. (Thats why I drive Porsche, you can drive it to the track and then home) My Ferrari buddies
trailer their cars, then count the laps quit and then trailer home
I have a friend of mine who is a pro ball player and he has given me a couple game worn jerseys and I dont wear those either.
I think I would rather have a couple high quality jackets I can wear than one real one I cant.
AND did I mention I dont know anything about real ones? Which patterns are more desirable, just all kinds of things I dont
know.
So I am here to learn and one thing I have learn is these things change hands and so if you change your mind you can.
SKIP I had my son take a bunch of pics of me wearing both and with Bman2's help I am starting to see the difference.
Plus the tanning is chrome I think on the USA.

 

[Andreart]

I have a US Auth. made about 5 yrs ago but the zip broke and i cant wear it. it was a nice jacket, heavy though. for comparisons:

usa russet HH

goodwear aero cow/steer

eastman house seal HH

Aero Bronco Seal HH

eastman russet cable goat

also have a russet goat Aero a-2 , flight suits seal goat a-2, cooper a-2, cooper anj-3 etc....

 

[Andreart]

Andreart, I have a couple of things working against me.
No knowledge on the subject. And being an engineer I have no problem saying when I dont know anything on a subject.
I am afraid of buying something like that and wearing it. I think (as a newbie) You better know what your buying
before wearing a piece of history. Its like all my Ferrari buddies. No matter what year or model they have, they all
have 2,990 miles on them. (Thats why I drive Porsche, you can drive it to the track and then home) My Ferrari buddies
trailer their cars, then count the laps quit and then trailer home
I have a friend of mine who is a pro ball player and he has given me a couple game worn jerseys and I dont wear those either.
I think I would rather have a couple high quality jackets I can wear than one real one I cant.
AND did I mention I dont know anything about real ones? Which patterns are more desirable, just all kinds of things I dont
know.
So I am here to learn and one thing I have learn is these things change hands and so if you change your mind you can.
SKIP I had my son take a bunch of pics of me wearing both and with Bman2's help I am starting to see the difference.
Plus the tanning is chrome I think on the USA.

cool, its a fun hobby. good luck finding that perfect one though....most likely wont ever happen

 

[PaulGT3]

WOW, I love the tones in that cow GW you have and the knits on it!!

The only thing I can see in those pics given my non knowledge is the
GW and the Aero have really developed some patina and the USA
and the Eastmans are still kind of new dull?

 

[zoomer]

Some of the details on US-A A-2s kind of fall into the "why bother" category - things where it probably wouldn't cost much more to copy high-end repros, but might take time or might not add much appeal for the target market of the not-quite knowledgeable.

For example, the heavy horsehide. Using cowhide could keep the weight down while holding the line on price, but then you couldn't advertise horsehide. It might be that there's more sales potential in telling them about authenticity than showing them at this price point.

Same goes for the 1/4" top stitching (which really draws attention to the thicker hides), brushed twill linings, neck hooks about half again bigger than the original. These aren't really cost issues - heck, correct-sized hook/eye sets are one of the few A-2 parts you can get at any notions counter.

Of course edge stitching instead of top might cost time, and lighter cottons might take more care to make into liners. I don't know. I'm not a garmento here, just a semi-educated consumer.

 

[PaulGT3]

Thanks Zoomer. Bman2 and I went over some of the more subtle nuances of the jackets so I could
see where some of the differences are. The zipper on the GW is NOS WWII and the USA looks like a cheap
stamped out copy. THe hook catch on the GW looks like a real wire and on the USA was a stamped out cookie
cutter type. Because of the hide thicknesses the seams dont lay down as well on the USA. But its still hard to
see the $1000 difference. I still think GW should add tailors and train more people rather than sell $1600-$2000
coats. Like a friend and I were talking, we have never even spent $1000 on a suit or a Tux. But John has to do
what he thinks what he needs to do to protect his business. Its just with the questionable economy there might
be an alternative to raising prices by that much. But like I said before its easy to Quarterback from my living room
and John is undercenter with 300 lb lineman ready to take him down as it were.

 

[zoomer]

Craftsmanship and salesmanship don't mix well. To do one well, you really need to make compromises with the other.

On the side of craftsmanship, that sometimes means turning away business or making precipitous price hikes just to keep control of every process and stay a one-man shop. You don't want to have to trust anyone else with your standards of quality. In fact, you have to be wary of anyone who wants to live up to them. You could end up training a competitor, because the days of indentured apprenticeship are good and gone.

Even when you try to do a midprice line, as Aero has done from time to time, you kind of need to pull your punches. You never know when you'll start competing with yourself, so you need to give the customer second thoughts about spending less.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

Paul- how did you get yours for $285? I went to U.S. Authentic's site http://www.flightjacket.com/a2-jacket.html and the A-2s are regular price. I have never seen a sale page anywhere on there. Did you find out by talking to Saul personally?
_______________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[PaulGT3]

Zoomer great post and great points. He could sign his apprentices to contracts that keep them out of the business for a year after leaving to give
John a chance to determine whether he wants to keep the guy, and then it will take the guy a while to get back up to speed so effectively you get a two
year market break from the guy you trained.
But another thing I worry about for John is a sudden health issue and BAM he is done. I learned that the hard way last year after back surgery last February.
He should have someone coming up behind him to keep the business going. Just my opinion given everyones high opinion of his jackets.

Good Times Here is the sale page:
http://www.flightjacket.com/sale.html
Its hard to find. I dont remember how I found it but I was zipping around the site, and I saw the nose art lady with the VIST OUR SALE PAGE just off to the right had side of the page.
There are 5 items down there and I purchased Item #7
Item one is some goatskin jackets in Sizes 34, 36, 38, 40 for $299
There is another A2 size 50 with some velcro on either breast
Item 2 is BLACK goats in Sizes sizes 34, 36, 38, 40 and the
last item is what was sent so me by mistake is a prototype goat sportster for $400
but No matter WHAT the price is on the side it STILL sells for $295
as listed on the top.
Those are the only sales items I can see.
So a NEW HH jacket for $295 I thought was a decent deal.
hope that helps

 

[a2jacketpatches]

JC, I nominate me as your apprentice if your reading this.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

Thanks Paul. That does help. They don't have anything I can use at the moment, but I'll check back occasionally. At one time I had a U.S Authentic goatskin A-2 in new condition I bought on ebay, but I sold it on because it was too large and long for me. With their A-2s you usually need to go down at least one size than you usually wear because they fit long. What I really want is a HH A-2 by them (either color) in a 40 or maybe even a 38.
____________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[PaulGT3]

Yea the 44 I got is bigger than the 46 GW I have! by alot!
But I didnt find the sale page until I poked around for awhile.
Then just by accident I saw the nose art lady in the corner.
So I bought that jacket right away. in my 44 size. That jacket in
the pic in item 7 is the sold jacket I bought.
I am surprised by the amount of stuff they have!!!

 

[Kennyz]

Paul, I agree with many of your observations. For several years I have worn a U.S. Authentic HH A-2 and it's been a wonderful jacket...it certainly has taken whatever has been thrown at it with no problem - very tough (and grainy! ).

The workmanship on mine is exceptional...yes, the HH is kind of thick, and some of the details are not that accurate, but for the price I believe it's an excellent jacket.

Just my two cents!

Ken

 

[Andreart]

WOW, I love the tones in that cow GW you have and the knits on it!!

The only thing I can see in those pics given my non knowledge is the
GW and the Aero have really developed some patina and the USA
and the Eastmans are still kind of new dull?

the aero has a patina to die for, it was a short run of shaved FQHH, mid weight but with the same characteristics as the heavy FQHH, my favorite jacket by far. The GW came that way.must be the way its tanned, nice analine ages great. i only wore it a few times cause the shoulders are tight on me. its a 48 but more like a 46. i'm a standard 48 now if not more so a bunch of these are closet queens, moved on to civil jackets the cut is more forgiving for my current paunch, i like beer more than jackets.

 

[PaulGT3]

Andreart I loved beer too!! But when my back went and I had to start taking meds Beer went out the winder, as we say in Texas,
What happened to that Aero jacket?

 

[TOMG1401]

The ELC Cable in goat is a keeper now