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I think I may have done ok... N3 parka PICS ADDED last page.

watchmanjimg

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

Tim P said:
I am pleased that other Reeds seem to be minus decal. I am happy for mine to be as it should be. maybe its a contractual thing... 10234. the buzz one is 12107

Tim:

Did you happen to check out my earlier post with a link to a Reed N-3 from the 10234 contract, with intact decal? Indications are that yours could very well have had a decal that faded, like thousands of other 50-60-year-old jackets--whatever it says in Full Gear, Suit Up, or anywhere else.
 

Tim P

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

watchmanjimg said:
Tim P said:
I am pleased that other Reeds seem to be minus decal. I am happy for mine to be as it should be. maybe its a contractual thing... 10234. the buzz one is 12107

Tim:

Did you happen to check out my earlier post with a link to a Reed N-3 from the 10234 contract, with intact decal? Indications are that yours could very well have had a decal that faded, like thousands of other 50-60-year-old jackets--whatever it says in Full Gear, Suit Up, or anywhere else.


I have to say i didnt. gonna search for it. In case I dont can you post a link?
 

watchmanjimg

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

And you can even see the stencil. How about that? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

watchmanjimg

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

Well, I've noticed that the more recent Buzz L-2As have the white outline stencil as opposed to the full-color type used in earlier versions. A review of original photos shows that both types were used, although the full-color stencil seems predominant.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

Tim P said:
can anyone date the 10234 contract?

The 10234, and 12107 contracts are consecutive, and both FY 1950. There was also an earlier Reed contract, 7435 FY 1949.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

watchmanjimg said:
.... Indications are that yours could very well have had a decal that faded, like thousands of other 50-60-year-old jackets--whatever it says in Full Gear, Suit Up, or anywhere else.

Jim, we must still have our wires crossed, neither book makes any editorial comment about decals on the N-3 ... well not in the parts that I can read.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post ...

They weren't making any claims either way, Jim, and neither was I ... just reporting that other pictures are consistant with those in the eBay listing.
 

Tim P

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

I cant wait to give a definitive answer on this. I suspect an outline stencil has faded to virtual invisibility. I will tell all!
 

joeson

Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

deeb7 said:
Tim P said:
can anyone date the 10234 contract?

The 10234, and 12107 contracts are consecutive, and both FY 1950. There was also an earlier Reed contract, 7435 FY 1949.

Would you happen to know when the AF-33 (038) 7385 contract dates to?
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

joeson said:
Would you happen to know when the AF-33 (038) 7385 contract dates to?

Full Gear has Sigmund Eisner, FY 1949. The contract also included N-2 jackets, D-1, and F-1 trousers.
 

USMC_GAU-21

Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

Jim,

The "white" stencil on the outside of the jacket like the "Buzz" was short lived due to the fact that it flaked off very very easily compared to the "Full Color" stencil. The ink process of the full color seemed to hold better, even as you say 50-60 year old jackets.

The L-2A's I have seen either in person or in photos, almost all have the full color stencil. With the white stencil on the inside.

The "Reed" N-3, N-3B's I have seen have all had stencils, full color. I have only seen a few examples of the N-3 with the outline "Black" stencil. As with all gov't contracting, the MIL-SPEC varies by company it seems. That's why my "Albert Turner" A-9 trousers are so interesting to me, as they have a "purple" stencil :shock:

4283711198_1f0c973eac_o.jpg


But we will see when the jacket comes in if Tim can find any hint of a stencil.

r/Gy
 

Tim P

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

with a medium up at a (ludicrous I admit) $3,500 I cant help but feel quite elevated by this.


to quote the seller.....

Hi Tim , thank you for paying for the differance in the shipping,I picked this jacket up in Shanendoah ,Pennsylvania in 1983 and I have worn it maybe a couple of times every winter, but for the past six years it has been in my closet here in South Carolina and I have no intention moving anywhere cold hence the reason for selling , before that I do not know anything . I do not think this jacket had a decal on the shoulder because there is no sign of one and it certainly has not been worn enough to have been worn off , hope you enjoy this jacket as much as I have and thanks again for your business ,kindest regards
 

USMC_GAU-21

Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

Yes I agree Tim, that $3500 price tag is residing in the stratosphere... :shock: :? :shock:

But, he does have some nice jackets.....some good prices too.

Overall, Stencil issue aside I think you did very good! Like I said early in the post, I too hope to someday have a N-2 & N-3 example for the collection.

r/Gy Dan
 

watchmanjimg

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

deeb7 said:
watchmanjimg said:
.... Indications are that yours could very well have had a decal that faded, like thousands of other 50-60-year-old jackets--whatever it says in Full Gear, Suit Up, or anywhere else.

Jim, we must still have our wires crossed, neither book makes any editorial comment about decals on the N-3 ... well not in the parts that I can read.

Perhaps you missed my earlier post ...

They weren't making any claims either way, Jim, and neither was I ... just reporting that other pictures are consistant with those in the eBay listing.

No offense intended but I don't think we have our wires crossed at all, David, nor did I miss your disclaimer in the earlier post. However, I'm not sure how the reference to Full Gear and Suit Up has any bearing on our discussion if no claims were being made. With no disrespect to Tim, he clearly doesn't know whether his N-3 ever had a decal and sought our guidance. He apparently concluded that it did not after reading your post, as seen here:

Tim P said:
I am pleased that other Reeds seem to be minus decal. I am happy for mine to be as it should be. maybe its a contractual thing... 10234. the buzz one is 12107

However, he had overlooked my post containing a link to a Reed 10234 N-3 offered by Vintage Trends which is specifically described as having an intact decal on the left sleeve:

watchmanjimg said:
Check this out:

http://www.vintagetrends.com/military/i ... &ST=N3%2DB

We can only assume that there were a limited number of jackets available for the authors of the Japanese treatises to examine, but obviously the N-3 began life with a stencil. The black outline perhaps deteriorates more readily than the full-color type, but even these can be hard to detect in some cases. My original L-2A and B-15C have only the slightest trace of lettering visible, and then upon the closest inspection.

The discussion continued with additional references to original N-3s with stencils, so clearly I'm not the only crackpot around here. Ultimately the seller of Tim's N-3 weighed in with an admittedly uninformed observation based solely on his inability to see the remnants of a label. I'd like to think by now many of us are aware that over time these labels can simply flake off leaving little or no trace, as Dan pointed out:

USMC_GAU-21 said:
Jim,

The "white" stencil on the outside of the jacket like the "Buzz" was short lived due to the fact that it flaked off very very easily compared to the "Full Color" stencil. The ink process of the full color seemed to hold better, even as you say 50-60 year old jackets.

The L-2A's I have seen either in person or in photos, almost all have the full color stencil. With the white stencil on the inside.

The "Reed" N-3, N-3B's I have seen have all had stencils, full color. I have only seen a few examples of the N-3 with the outline "Black" stencil. As with all gov't contracting, the MIL-SPEC varies by company it seems. That's why my "Albert Turner" A-9 trousers are so interesting to me, as they have a "purple" stencil :shock:

4283711198_1f0c973eac_o.jpg


But we will see when the jacket comes in if Tim can find any hint of a stencil.

r/Gy

In the final analysis Tim may be unable to detect any remnant of a decal on this particular N-3. However, that doesn't mean that it didn't have one. My gripe with treatises such as Full Gear and Suit Up as well as some of the claptrap of repro makers such as Buzz Rickson is that they offer incomplete and sometimes misleading information that can be relied upon in error by those who lack experience in handling actual jackets.

Just my opinion, and again I mean no disrespect.
 

Tim P

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

I will know if even the faintest trace of a decal remains. I will use magnification if necessary. Just to know as much as anything. The lack of a decal demilitarises it to a degree ( due deference to the fact that it is olive drab) so I don't mind one way or the other.
 

deeb7

Gone, but not forgotten.
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

watchmanjimg said:
No offense intended but I don't think we have our wires crossed at all, David, nor did I miss your disclaimer in the earlier post. However, I'm not sure how the reference to Full Gear and Suit Up has any bearing on our discussion if no claims were being made .....

Jim, I posted originally to point out that other pictures were consistant with those of the eBay seller's.

In the final analysis Tim may be unable to detect any remnant of a decal on this particular N-3. However, that doesn't mean that it didn't have one. My gripe with treatises such as Full Gear and Suit Up as well as some of the claptrap of repro makers such as Buzz Rickson is that they offer incomplete and sometimes misleading information that can be relied upon in error by those who lack experience in handling actual jackets.

Just my opinion, and again I mean no disrespect.

The point that I keep failing to make, is that neither I, or the Japanese books, are disagreeing with you. When I first posted, I had two windows open, and hadn't read your post ... mine was directed at Tim. Your post ... Tim, in some cases the decal can wear away to the point where it's very difficult to see any trace. I'd wait until it arrives before drawing any conclusions ... seemed fair enough to me.

There is no misleading information, and no disagreement.
 

watchmanjimg

Well-Known Member
Re: I think I may have done ok... N3 parka

No problem, David. It just seems to me that if Tim wanted to know whether his N-3 could have originally had a decal he'd be better served by pictures of the same garment with the decal, rather than those without. I don't mean to say that you intentionally misled him, of course, but certainly confusion arose and persisted well into the thread.
 
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