Hi all I need some help on a flying jacket

[ryeupholstery]

I bought ths the other day and need some information on it. Its seems the real deal but I just want to check. Looks like an upto 1941 era 2 piece flying jacket. No pockets, belt along the bottom with brass buckle, Clix zips although main zip is broken, leather tags on zips, honey coloured fur, no tags/labels, brass hanging chain riveted through the back of the collar with brass fixings. belt on the collar which I think is later with a silver buckle. Also has a hole in the back which I was told was a bullet hole. All the fur inside around the hole has been cut away as if to remove the blood? there is wear to the fur on the cuffs and along the bottom of the jacket. Various marks and wear to the jacket i.e on the shoulders, creases on the arms where they bend etc... Also has the breathers under the armpits. Ive had a few of these and this one deffo seems to fit in with the others ive had.

 

[John Lever]

This is reproduction made by Aviation Leather Craft. They have been making them since the 1970' s,they own the Irvin name and this looks like an early one.
The collar strap is reversed on these jackets compared to originals.

 

[ryeupholstery]

So do u mean the collar strap is the other way around on the originals? Is that the only difference?

 

[Roughwear]

I agree, its an ALC repro from the 1970s. The style of belt buckle and Clix zips are typical of early ALC jackets. From the photo the collar strap is on the left side of the collar which is correct for original Wartime Irvins, however ALC often placed them on the right side.

 

[ryeupholstery]

Ok thanks. So what zips would a genuine one have? Lightning?

 

[Roughwear]

DOT zips were used on the earliest Irvins from 1932 and were the most frequently used zips throughout the War. The DOT brand was owned by United Carr, an American manufacturer with business outlets across the world. Lightning zips were first used on Irvins in 1939 and were used frequently from 1941 on wards. Other zips were Flash Fastener (F.F.Ltd), used for the sleeves from 1943 onwards and others had N marked on them. Clix zips were used on civilian Irvins from the 1950s onwards.

 

[flyboy]

It's an early ALC Irvin all right.
Another sign is the slightly tunnel shaped sleeves. Real Irvins - and the better reproduction Irvins - have different sleeves too. Getting slightly more narrow at the lover arm towards the wrist..
The hole in the back? Bullet hole? I think not.
But it might have been torn or damaged at one time, and in order to try to repair it, the owner might have cut away some of the fleece, in order to patch it up from the inside. Just my guess.

 

[Phantomfixer]

A question on zippers...the local Army Navy store just bought an Irvin...zips are stamped ...Made in England..I told him I thought it was a very old repop maybe even a period commercial...would the zips be stamped Made in England?

JZ

 

[Roughwear]

Many original Wartime Dot zips had "Made in England" stamped on the puller and slider bucket.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Thanks for the info Andrew....if I get back in to the store I will take pics...nice enough jacket in decent shape...

 

[Rutger]

DOT zips were used on the earliest Irvins from 1932 and were the most frequently used zips throughout the War. The DOT brand was owned by United Carr, an American manufacturer with business outlets across the world. Lightning zips were first used on Irvins in 1939 and were used frequently from 1941 on wards. Other zips were Flash Fastener (F.F.Ltd), used for the sleeves from 1943 onwards and others had N marked on them. Clix zips were used on civilian Irvins from the 1950s onwards.

Do you have to look that up or is that instant knowledge? Either way I'm constantly amazed at the information that some members are able to provide at a flick.

 

[Otter]

Andrew is a walking encyclopedia on these jackets. For a while now we have been urging him to finish his book in case he is hit by a bus and we loose all that knowledge. :ugeek:

 

[Roughwear]

DOT zips were used on the earliest Irvins from 1932 and were the most frequently used zips throughout the War. The DOT brand was owned by United Carr, an American manufacturer with business outlets across the world. Lightning zips were first used on Irvins in 1939 and were used frequently from 1941 on wards. Other zips were Flash Fastener (F.F.Ltd), used for the sleeves from 1943 onwards and others had N marked on them. Clix zips were used on civilian Irvins from the 1950s onwards.

Do you have to look that up or is that instant knowledge? Either way I'm constantly amazed at the information that some members are able to provide at a flick.

No I didn't. It is knowledge that I have through researching and handling Irvins.