Free A-2 Jacket from Bill Kelso

[chamboid]

You make the assumption that this "contest" is a fair one....what do you base that on?

Your comments about bringing up jacket reviews is off topic. BK has plenty of reviews on this Forum, and I am sure will get plenty more....and just like Goodwear, Eastman, and the other makers, some will be honest and some will be humped up.

You say this "game costs the participants nothing", maybe, but maybe not. I'll let you think about that one.

And you make the assumption that it will be unfair. I think that's a state of mind not a philosophy.

But a good review still advertises a company and jacket. There is loads of advertising from direct to indirect and subtle. And it is an opinion so not off topic. A good review advertises a company. Just because Eastman, GW hasn't done this doesn't mean that BK doing it is wrong. It's just an offer and I think a very astute and generous one.

I have no proof that this will be fair or not, but it will be what it will be. And served its perpose already, showing Andy as a member of this forum who has a head for business with a personal touch.

P.s and if you mean by 'not costing anything' that those who don't win will get an urge to buy a BK jacket... That's up to them.

 

[unclegrumpy]

And if you refuse to pay then Darth Vader comes and chokes you to death. Someone, even you, could win this jacket. What's so bad about that?

I have no doubt that you had nothing but good intentions when this idea popped into your head.

However:

1) I think this venue is not appropriate for this "contest", and it would be better conducted on your website. IMO, it goes over the line of the Forum being used for commercial purposes. If it were in the Buy/Sell section, it would clearly have grounds for being deleted.

2) Beyond that, your "contest" has no rules to insure it is fair and honest.....both for the participants, and you as the administrator. I don't think it is very well thought out, and subject to unintended consequences.

3) Darth Vader is never a problem as long as disturbances in the Force such as this are kept in check. One must always remain vigilant, and never fail to recognize the perils of embarking on tempting pathways that might inadvertently lead to the Dark Side. As we know, the Dark Side feeds on emotions such as anger, jealousy, and hate....so be wary young Jedi, be wary....

4) As a friendly suggestion, I would suggest using something like the below to pick the winner. Using it's "advance mode" seems to imply it could be run in real time on the Forum:

http://www.random.org/lists/?mode=advanced

 

[a2jacketpatches]

It seems the initial post here clearly states that this will not be a contest and that it will be a drawing. I'm happy to participate posting my feeble little inventory and can only hope to win. I'm not gonna worry about it too much considering that I've been allowed to promote my sales, new patches, ideas, and such without a problem. I trust that BK is just trying to add a little fun here.

 

[Anonymous]

2) Beyond that, your "contest" has no rules to insure it is fair and honest.....both for the participants, and you as the administrator. I don't think it is very well thought out, and subject to unintended consequences.

Relax man, it's just a jacket. We ain't giving out a Mercedes or a million bucks.

Like Sean said, it's for fun.

Now let me add a pair of aviator glasses that will go with the jacket.

We thought of doing it through the site, but wanted to avoid the extra emails coming in that would disrupt operations (and causing more delays ha ha). Besides, here it's more fun. It's open to everybody to see and we have something extra to talk about.

And thanks for the link but we 're gonna be using Excel's random function.

 

[Marv]

2) Beyond that, your "contest" has no rules to insure it is fair and honest.....both for the participants, and you as the administrator. I don't think it is very well thought out, and subject to unintended consequences.

Relax man, it's just a jacket. We ain't giving out a Mercedes or a million bucks.

Like Sean said, it's for fun.

Now let me add a pair of aviator glasses that will go with the jacket.

We thought of doing it through the site, but wanted to avoid the extra emails coming in that would disrupt operations (and causing more delays ha ha). Besides, here it's more fun. It's open to everybody to see and we have something extra to talk about.

And thanks for the link but we 're gonna be using Excel's random function.

I say, great idea by BK......go for it guys

 

[siddhartha]

I'm the owner of the forum. I have no issues with the generosity of this offer.

I started the thread, too-with no knowledge that it might be the thread where a winner would be drawn.

I think it's a nice gesture, and in keeping with the community spirit of the forum. BK has never asked for favoritism from me, or VLJ, and there's no hidden agenda here.

BK is giving away a jacket, and it's up to them to decide how to do it. If I felt it was not in keeping with the forum, I'd weigh in, but I don't have a problem here.

Best,

Chris

 

[unclegrumpy]

I trust that BK is just trying to add a little fun here.

I don't disagree with you.

However, from the standpoint of this Forum, I think that this needs some further thought and consideration, otherwise it potentially sets a bad precedence.

From my standpoint, I see two solutions that should be considered:


1) Have the Moderators create a new thread category for strictly commercial use. I would trust them to set some reasonable boundaries, which I think would be needed.

That way BK, Goodwear, Eastman, Juan at WW II Impressions, and the others would have a place to post their new product announcements, website links, and sale items. That would be a more honest way than going through surrogates, and keep the subject matter in the discussion threads more on point.

2) If this Forum is going to become a platform for contests, drawings, or promotions, then I think there should be posted rules for them.

As a starting point, these rules should include:

A) The appropriate place/thread on the Forum to conduct them.

B) A clear description of the item or items in the promotion.

C) The time frame of the event, with a stated beginning and end.

D) Any conditions that are required to participate.

E) Details of the method that will be used to determine the winner.


Platon, believe me your contest is not interfering with my relaxation.

My point is I think there should be some boundaries and rules for things....ones that apply to everyone fairly. I think that if we do not openly discuss the nuts and bolts of things like this when they arise, then we risk seeing this Forum degrade.

No matter how you cut it, this contest sets a precedence. My point here is not so much about BK, but rather what this means as far as the next guy who wants to do a product promotion or openly market his wares in the general discussion threads. What if nobody likes him or his products? Then maybe what never intended to be favoritism, becomes so.

Maybe nobody else but me is bothered by any of this. If so, I can live with that.

 

[Persimmon]

I trust that BK is just trying to add a little fun here.

I don't disagree with you.

However, from the standpoint of this Forum, I think that this needs some further thought and consideration, otherwise it potentially sets a bad precedence.

From my standpoint, I see two solutions that should be considered:


1) Have the Moderators create a new thread category for strictly commercial use. I would trust them to set some reasonable boundaries, which I think would be needed.

That way BK, Goodwear, Eastman, Juan at WW II Impressions, and the others would have a place to post their new product announcements, website links, and sale items. That would be a more honest way than going through surrogates, and keep the subject matter in the discussion threads more on point.

2) If this Forum is going to become a platform for contests, drawings, or promotions, then I think there should be posted rules for them.

As a starting point, these rules should include:

A) The appropriate place/thread on the Forum to conduct them.

B) A clear description of the item or items in the promotion.

C) The time frame of the event, with a stated beginning and end.

D) Any conditions that are required to participate.

E) Details of the method that will be used to determine the winner.


Platon, believe me your contest is not interfering with my relaxation.

My point is I think there should be some boundaries and rules for things....ones that apply to everyone fairly. I think that if we do not openly discuss the nuts and bolts of things like this when they arise, then we risk seeing this Forum degrade.

No matter how you cut it, this contest sets a precedence. My point here is not so much about BK, but rather what this means as far as the next guy who wants to do a product promotion or openly market his wares in the general discussion threads. What if nobody likes him or his products? Then maybe what never intended to be favoritism, becomes so.

Maybe nobody else but me is bothered by any of this. If so, I can live with that.

I think you answered your own question.
Everyone else is Ok with this so why not let it go.
Hey if you win you can always refuse the "award" (or send some Native American girl - aka Brando's, Sacheen Littlefeather to pick it up.

 

[SuinBruin]

There have been random giveaways on the forum before. I was the beneficiary of one -- I got a CWU-45 from HackerF15E. It doesn't happen that often and I don't think it's a big deal. (Unless John is going to start giving away free Good Wears on a regular basis. )

 

[deand]

I own three repros:

1) A goatskin Flight Apparel, which has wonderful grain and I love it, some hate them.

2) Quartermaster Uniform of California. So-so repro...put my 9th Bomb Squadron patch on it.


3) One I don't recall the maker of and it's lacking a zipper. Pockets are too high.





dean

 

[Rutger]

What favoritism are you referring to? Influential member getting a jacket for free to persuade him into subtly promoting this particular brand whereas said influential member otherwise would/might not have been so positive?
What other favoritism could be possible? What problems do you think might arise?

 

[Peter Graham]

Unclegrumpy, I know where your coming from and I can see trouble ahead, especially if I don't win !

 

[blackrat2]

I would love to win this jacket,however why not give it to the guy on here who sold his BK to pay his bills as he has no job

 

[B-Man2]

Some of you guys crack me up.
Once again ;
"No good deed goes unpunished on this forum"

Platoon;
Thanks for the good intentions .

 

[bfrench]

I am not a potential BK customer, so I will not be participating. Without some rules to insure fairness, this looks like a marketing stunt that does not belong on this Forum. BK can do as he pleases on his website, but I don't think this is appropriate here.

That said, I would suggest either calling this off and forgetting about it, or devising a fair and unbiassed way of collecting the names and drawing them. IMO, to avoid any possible claims of favoritism, manipulation, or hints corruption, this drawing should be made independently of BK, and administered by someone with no ties to any of the parties involved.

Yes, I am no fun. However, this is exactly the type of thing that without some transparency and rules risks making people made at one another.

Hi, Folks,

I belong to the Unofficial Martin Guitar Group which has approximately 15,000 international members and has giveaway / contests by members on a regular basis. These include everything from a set of guitar strings, picks and up to and including custom built guitars.

Not once have I heard of it affecting the forum in any other way except the members thanking the donor.

As Siddhartha has said, it's welcome here and that goes for anyone who wants to donate something to the membership.

Many thanks to Platon.

 

[unclegrumpy]

As Siddhartha has said, it's welcome here and that goes for anyone who wants to donate something to the membership.

Hopefully my comments in this thread have been taken constructively, as that is how they were intended. I don't think many here realize the personal costs, headaches, and time it takes to successfully run a Forum. I do, and appreciate all of your efforts and respect your opinions....even those that I may have some disagreement with.

Thanks for the hard work guys!

 

[grommet]

As Siddhartha has said, it's welcome here and that goes for anyone who wants to donate something to the membership.

Hopefully my comments in this thread have been taken constructively, as that is how they were intended. I don't think many here realize the personal costs, headaches, and time it takes to successfully run a Forum. I do, and appreciate all of your efforts and respect your opinions....even those that I may have some disagreement with.

Thanks for the hard work guys!

Perhaps you should be called "uncle-amiable".

 

[unclegrumpy]

[Perhaps you should be called "uncle-amiable".

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[bretron]

Hey Platon, when you gonna announce me the winner already?

 

[Anonymous]

within this month