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Finally A Label!

FlyingToastman

New Member
Roughwear said:
Well spotted. The label looks to be rather worn. Have you asked the seller for a close up pic?

I'm going to. I read the description and I guess he thinks its civilian but I'm hoping to hear from him when I come home from work.
 

MikeyB-17

Well-Known Member
Cor, what a motley bunch! It certainly looks like a civvy label-which confirms my suspicion that they were never issued and were only ever civilian jackets.
 

tamoko

Member
MikeyB-17 said:
Cor, what a motley bunch! It certainly looks like a civvy label-which confirms my suspicion that they were never issued and were only ever civilian jackets.

It was issued.
And it was more expensive then $5 A-2 ;) It was luxury !
http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=380
125454868_sKLjf-L.jpg

125454885_tprcK-L.jpg

WESPANJ3.jpg
 

MikeyB-17

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but Bill's never seen the label. I've yet to hear of anyone who's ever seen one with a military contract label in it-I remember seeing a pic of one with an AAF stamp in it, but never a label. I stand to be corrected, but I'm with Peter in the last post on that thread.
 

tamoko

Member
MikeyB-17 said:
Yeah, but Bill's never seen the label. I've yet to hear of anyone who's ever seen one with a military contract label in it-I remember seeing a pic of one with an AAF stamp in it, but never a label. I stand to be corrected, but I'm with Peter in the last post on that thread.

I have Willis & Geiger with AN-6552 label but AN-J-3A pocket label so which Jacket is it ?

Other example is John Chapman civilian Doniger and many USN's A-2 and Irvin without label.

So i have owned labeled one and this is "AN-J-3" Abercrombie & Fitch but with military hardwear and military cuffs waistband. I have at the moment one and this is better than any A-2s and i would never trade this Jacket for A-2.
This jacket like Star, W&G, Irvin and many other maker made Jackets for both civilian and army use.
In fact it is a big question if AN-J-3 contract really existed, i don't know.

But civilian is not automatically cheap ;)
Some BUCO, BECK, Flying Togs are pretty expensive. Old 1882-1960 Abercrombie & Fitch was one of the best in this time and enough good for Hemingway, US presidents and other "high society" at this time.
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
As far as Irvins are concerned they all originally had labels. As they were tacked to the fleece they often fell off. Around 1941 the AM instructed the RAF to remove labels which had the maker's name on them as there was concern that the factories would be targetted by the Luftwaffe.
 

tamoko

Member
Roughwear said:
tamoko said:
Do you saw any contract labeled "Harman" Jacket ? It is not one rial flight Jacket ?
Never heard this name before. You are not thinking of "Hartmann"?

Yes Yes i made a typo, not big deal you know what i mean ;)
This Jacket was never produced under contract. Has it lost flying status ?
 

MikeyB-17

Well-Known Member
Yes, they were worn by fliers, but the Luftwaffe never issued them-they were private purchase. In fact I believe 'Hartmann' is a name made up by Eastman for their Luftwaffe jacket, named after the famous German ace-I think the ones the Luftwaffe pilots wore were cycling jackets. So yes, they were worn by fliers, but they were not an actual military contract jacket. Same with the AN-J-3, IMHO-made by a military contractor for the civilian market, and very likely worn by military fliers, yes. Issued by the military-no. And nobody is doubting that they were more expensive than an A-2-it's pretty well accepted that Navy jackets were of a higher quality than AAF ones-the 'Motley Bunch' I was referring to was the four that chap is selling-nice jackets once, but have seen better days!
 

Roughwear

Well-Known Member
MikeyB-17 said:
Yes, they were worn by fliers, but the Luftwaffe never issued them-they were private purchase. In fact I believe 'Hartmann' is a name made up by Eastman for their Luftwaffe jacket, named after the famous German ace-I think the ones the Luftwaffe pilots wore were cycling jackets. So yes, they were worn by fliers, but they were not an actual military contract jacket. Same with the AN-J-3, IMHO-made by a military contractor for the civilian market, and very likely worn by military fliers, yes. Issued by the military-no. And nobody is doubting that they were more expensive than an A-2-it's pretty well accepted that Navy jackets were of a higher quality than AAF ones-the 'Motley Bunch' I was referring to was the four that chap is selling-nice jackets once, but have seen better days!

Absolutely. Hartmann was a Luftwaffe ace who wore a privately purchased leather bike jacket, which has been "copied" by several modern makers.
 

Swing

New Member
MikeyB-17 said:
Yeah, but Bill's never seen the label. I've yet to hear of anyone who's ever seen one with a military contract label in it-I remember seeing a pic of one with an AAF stamp in it, but never a label. I stand to be corrected, but I'm with Peter in the last post on that thread.

Charles at HPA claims to have had one years ago. It was basically an M-422A with a leather collar. Like the ones pictured in Combat Flying Clothing, it had no A-2 style windflap or epaulettes. It had a USN contract number on the lable. IIRC, he said the Navy had one or two very small contracts for AN-J-3s, and that was it. The AN-J-3s we see commonly on ebay are commercial jackets.

~Swing
 

hacker

Active Member
Those jackets are toast!......I doubt there's a zipper worth saving, and besides a few tags, maybe, and a button or two, maybe, I can't see what else you could get out of them. The shipping is higher then their value!.....IMHO


Hacker
 

hacker

Active Member
Swing said:
MikeyB-17 said:
Yeah, but Bill's never seen the label. I've yet to hear of anyone who's ever seen one with a military contract label in it-I remember seeing a pic of one with an AAF stamp in it, but never a label. I stand to be corrected, but I'm with Peter in the last post on that thread.

Charles at HPA claims to have had one years ago. It was basically an M-422A with a leather collar. Like the ones pictured in Combat Flying Clothing, it had no A-2 style windflap or epaulettes. It had a USN contract number on the lable. IIRC, he said the Navy had one or two very small contracts for AN-J-3s, and that was it. The AN-J-3s we see commonly on ebay are commercial jackets.

~Swing

I don't doubt that some were made as a test run. And probably a few got "loose" out on the line, but I just don't believe they were ever officially distributed. There's always an oddball jacket floating around that was used by crew members, but that's as far as many of them go.

Hacker
 
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