ELC A2: Summer or Intermediate?

[wop54]

Hi Everybody! Here I am with my third question in a row (am I not a pain in the neck? ): how come that the same ELC A2 according to the History Preservation Associates its a summer jacket and to ELC its an intermediate one? I quote ELC:"standardized as the type A-2 flight jacket, on May 29th 1931, as the regulation Army Air Corp Intermediate flight jacket, it was used...." I apologize if my question is only a matter of a misunderstanding due to my imperfect use of the language. Tkx for your answers! Cheers, Carlo

 

[Peter Graham]

Carlo, I don't think there was such a thing as summer and intermediate jackets in the AAC when the A-2 was designed. I would imagine that when it was too warm for an A-2 they just wore flight suits. I always treat what ELC says with a healthy pinch of salt, eg, the Roughwear B-6 !

 

[deeb7]

I think that HPA is correct and it's "the type A-2 Summer flying jacket".

The B-15, with it's alpaca lining, and woolly collar, was Intermediate zone ... so was the Navy's G-1, but again with a mouton collar that could be folded up for warmth.

There are other contradictions if you compare HPA's descriptions, with Eastman's. For more reliable information on the A-2, Acme Depot is your best resource on the Internet.

http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/index.shtml

 

[Falcon_52]

The Eastman Werber A-2 that I have is in no way an "intermediate" jacket. Like deeb7 said, it's most definitely a summer flight jacket or a "light" jacket. The B-6 jacket is the USAAC's intermediate jacket probably developed in 1939 because there was nothing between the A-1/A-2 light jackets and the B-2/B-3 heavy jackets up to that point.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Noel

 

[dadgad]

Ciao Carlo,
I write it down in English for everybody.

I live in Milan and these days we are freezing with temperatures near or even below 0°C, I worn A-2, G-1 and MA-1 with the same layers underneath (t-shirt, polo shirt and a sweater) and beyond what the labels or mil. specs. say I found that for my cold tolerance limits which are pretty high, the A-2 is good until 4°C, the G-1 grants a couple of degrees below, probably due to the satin lining while the MA-1 is well warm also below 0°C.

 

[wop54]

the A-2 is good until 4°C
Ciao dadgad, in freezing days i used to wear my 20 yo beloved (bought in via Paolo Sarpi) Schott A-2 with collar and pile liner on. I say "used to" coz my 17 yo old son has definetely taken it for himself...I also own a Cockpit A-2 but can't wear it in cold weather coz its size allows me to wear just a shirt underneath. That's why i've ordered for myself a new ELC Star (i fencied something "more authentic") a size bigger. Thanks for letting me know that i'll be able to wear my new A-2 also during the most part of winter! Cheers, Carlo

 

[wop54]

Ciao Carlo,
I write it down in English for everybody.

I live in Milan and these days we are freezing with temperatures near or even below 0°C, I worn A-2, G-1 and MA-1 with the same layers underneath (t-shirt, polo shirt and a sweater) and beyond what the labels or mil. specs. say I found that for my cold tolerance limits which are pretty high, the A-2 is good until 4°C, the G-1 grants a couple of degrees below, probably due to the satin lining while the MA-1 is well warm also below 0°C.

Ooops i thought i replied but realize i post a new comment...plz see my above reply Carlo (my huge fingers always fight with tiny buttons)

 

[zoomer]

Tell me about it. I'm on my web phone and I just found myself making a call...in the middle of composing a post...

I have worn roomy-fitting A-1/A-2 jackets with t-shirt/shirt/sweater underlayers in temps down to 15°F and been comfortably warm. The knit collar on the A-1 really helps because it is designed to be worn closed.

The ELC Werber, otoh, is of unusually thin hide. I have worn mine well into the 60s°F comfortably.

About the lack of an intermediate flight jacket during the 30s? Prewar pilots wore their jackets fuller-fitting than the skinny kids of WW2. One could easily have layered underneath them.

 

[Burnsie]

Suit Up! pages 44-45 has a nice chart of Heavy, Intermediate, and Light Zone jackets.

 

[dadgad]

translated from Japanese

TEMP. CHART

 

[rich]

Hi chaps, I hoped these might be interesting if you've not seen them before..............

 

[zoomer]

Thanks rich!

Notice that the B-15/A-11 combo was "intermediate" and intended for only 14°F(-10°C), while the B-11 (parka)/A-10 (zipperless pants) combo was "heavy" and good down to maybe 4°F(-16°C).

All were the same weight alpaca liner and cotton or nylon shell (at least my A-9 and A-10 pants are...the A-9 was meant for wear with the B-10 jacket and the A-11/B-15 superseded them on the chart above). Apparently the the lack of zippers on the A-10s made them warmer.

You never saw parkas on wartime flight crews. (Please post a pic to prove me wrong if you have one!) The hood just did not get along with chute harnesses. And the electric longies with intermediate suit had you covered right down to -50°C.

 

[wop54]

Thanks rich!

Notice that the B-15/A-11 combo was "intermediate" and intended for only 14°F(-10°C), while the B-11 (parka)/A-10 (zipperless pants) combo was "heavy" and good down to maybe 4°F(-16°C).

All were the same weight alpaca liner and cotton or nylon shell (at least my A-9 and A-10 pants are...the A-9 was meant for wear with the B-10 jacket and the A-11/B-15 superseded them on the chart above). Apparently the the lack of zippers on the A-10s made them warmer.

You never saw parkas on wartime flight crews. (Please post a pic to prove me wrong if you have one!) The hood just did not get along with chute harnesses. And the electric longies with intermediate suit had you covered right down to -50°C.

Many thanks to you all for giving such interesting and detailed information. I've just approached the forum but i really feel honored and pleased to have to deal with passionate and expert gents like you. But i warn you, in time due (don't want to become obsessive too soon) i'll post several others questions!!!

 

[zoomer]

Thanks wop...I should say paesano, I'm part Italian myself
You should visit http://www.303rdbg.com for info on flight gear as worn in the ETO.
This page discusses the heated suits and what was worn with them.
The photos are from a very extensive collection!