Commercial A2's produced in the UK During WWII

[B-Man2]

During the period of 1942 to 1946 there were approximately 1, 700,000.00 US troops stationed in England and the surrounding countries of the UK. My father was one of them. During discussions with him prior to his passing, he often talked about how much he enjoyed his time there, knowing that he was preparing for D-Day and that his life was about to change forever. One of things that impressed him most was that whatever he needed ....anything.. could be made and purchased in England, as there was a thriving commercial economy catering to the military. Custom made uniforms, insignia, battle ribbons , everything including A2 jackets. At the time he was in the airborne and many of the officers had A2 jackets issued to them. Many of the officers who could afford them had them custom made on the commercial market.
(Long way around to get to my point...sorry!)

My question is this....
Do any of our UK member's have any information on the English commercial A2 makers of that period .......or...... one of the A2's commercially made in their collections?

I'm wondering what US makers they patterned their jackets after and would be interested in seeing how they compared to the original issued A2 jackets. Thanks for any responses in advance.
Cheers
B-Man2

 

[Roughwear]

This is interesting. I have yet to see an A-2 made in the UK during the War. There were civilian leather jackets of course, but none to my knowledge that followed the A-2 spec. Mail order was still an option as some of the government contractors, such as Aero, provided this service. Whether aircrew stationed in the UK bought A-2s this way is a question which others may be able to answer.

 

[dmar836]

Long ago I posted about a "private purchase" A-2 I have that was most likely in the war. Who can say where they each were made? Spec-wise I suppose copying one would be an option if it was just a one-off.
Mine's on a mannequin right now or I'd look. I think a private purchase from the US would most likely have had a label of the sporting goods/outerwear company but would a local UK tailor have placed a shop label on such a beast or would labels be left off? I'd think the latter unless a pocket tag like on officer Class A's. I think as far as A-2s go this might fall under the "Sure, it happened, but not as often as we'd like to believe" and if it did we would all benefit from some provenance to establish what to look for.
Great topic!
Dave

 

[MikeyB-17]

Sure I’ve seen pics somewhere of a private purchase A-2 made in Blighty, possibly one of the jacket art books. Or perhaps I dreamt it. I’ll have a look tomorrow.

 

[Smithy]

I'm with Dave, what a fascinating question. I knew that civilian A-2 copies were made Stateside but I had no idea that there was the possibility that they might have been made in Britain.

This reminds me of the hunt for the possible NZ made Irvin jackets. I love this sort of stuff!

 

[ausreenactor]

Not specifically A-2; however, my Dad had a locally made M-41 jacket that I loved as a kid. Think I sold it for stuff all to put towards an ATF repro? Live and learn I suppose.

Good luck on the quest.

 

[B-Man2]

After looking through "American Flight Jackets, Airman & Aircraft" by Jon A McGuire and John P Conway, I found these photos with the above caption on Page 29. What I find interesting is the bottom line in the paragraph which states that issued A2 jackets were manufactured in agreement with lend- lease agreements. Since the caption specifically is discussing the commercially made Australian A2 jacket in the photograph, does the author mean that A2 jackets were made in England under lend lease licensing agreements with American A2 manufacturers?
According to the caption the production of A2's had been curtailed and US pilots were procuring them on the commercial / civilian market. Now we at least have a lead that indicates that A2's may have been produced in England under lend lease license from original US manufacturers during the war. According to this excerpt, a few of them were being produced in Australia with very detailed patterns corresponding to issued A2 jackets.
Looking at the photo of the jacket above can anyone identify a US manufacturer associated with this jacket?
All thoughts welcomed here.
Cheers
B-Man2

 

[johnwayne]

I'm sure Gary Eastman would have considered this when compiling his A2 jacket manual but having said that as far as I recall he makes no mention of Aussie made A2's either. Whilst I'm well aware dress wear was often made locally I have my doubts about A2's, surely one would have surfaced by now!

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I can say with some certainty that I've never come across a wartime A-2 made by a British tailor. I'm pretty sure I would have spotted the (fairly obvious) tailoring clues that seperate European leatherwork and North American There are a quite few, obviously it helps that I was trained in European methods and converted to North American techniques through restoring many hundreds of originals, There are even a couple of tell tale clues that help ID Canadian made from USA made.
USAAF had more than one garment repair depots in England during WW2, there's at least one very good published photo in a reference book, I can't remember which.....can anone help?
Rumour has it, however, that (American) machinists in these repair shops made the odd jacket or two from scratch but that's unsubstatiated as far as I'm aware and the legend may not even refer to the A-2. Obviously, if they did, the tailoring clues would have been North American so it would be really hard to prove the garment was made in England

 

[Cobblers161]

I would imagine that during the wars years leather hides in the UK would have been limited for private purchase. Everything was in short supply with a huge war industry to support, I expect leather jackets, apart from uniforms, were not a priority.

 

[B-Man2]

Hi
I found this on Wikipedia regarding A2 jackets. It just adds to the duscussion:

Theatre-made jackets
Throughout the War, as the A-2's popularity grew, so too did the demand for it. Only aircrewmen could obtain A-2 jackets through regular channels, although a few celebrated nonflying officers like Gens. MacArthur and Patton and Maj. Glenn Miller also procured and wore them. A small "cottage industry" soon appeared, especially in England, to make A-2-style jackets for GI's (including many airborne infantry troops) who otherwise couldn't get one. This was especially true after the Army stopped purchasing new leather jackets in mid-1943, and disappointed airmen were sent to war in the less desirable cloth jackets, or were unable to replace A-2's they had lost or damaged. As a result, some war-era jackets used by World War II airmen are clearly not true to original AAF specifications, though this makes them no less historic.

 

[Roughwear]

Hi
I found this on Wikipedia regarding A2 jackets. It just adds to the duscussion:

Theatre-made jackets
Throughout the War, as the A-2's popularity grew, so too did the demand for it. Only aircrewmen could obtain A-2 jackets through regular channels, although a few celebrated nonflying officers like Gens. MacArthur and Patton and Maj. Glenn Miller also procured and wore them. A small "cottage industry" soon appeared, especially in England, to make A-2-style jackets for GI's (including many airborne infantry troops) who otherwise couldn't get one. This was especially true after the Army stopped purchasing new leather jackets in mid-1943, and disappointed airmen were sent to war in the less desirable cloth jackets, or were unable to replace A-2's they had lost or damaged. As a result, some war-era jackets used by World War II airmen are clearly not true to original AAF specifications, though this makes them no less historic.

It is well known about the celebrated officers having A-2s especially as there is photographic evidence to support this and some of their surviving jackets. But what is the evidence for the "small cottage industry" in England making A-2s? Aircrew could have purchased civi leather jackets in the UK, but whether these were A-2 jackets needs to be supported by evidence.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

It is well known about the celebrated officers having A-2s especially as there is photographic evidence to support this and some of their surviving jackets. But what is the evidence for the "small cottage industry" in England making A-2s? Aircrew could have purchased civi leather jackets in the UK, but whether these were A-2 jackets needs to be supported by evidence.

I'm with Andrew on this one, there were plenty non issue makers versions available stateside but made in The UK? I very much doubt it, and if they were any "small cottage industry" makers, or "bedsit entreprises" as we called then in the 60s, making jackets, those jackets might be "A-2s, but not as we know them, Jim"

 

[B-Man2]

Aircrew could have purchased civi leather jackets in the UK, but whether these were A-2 jackets needs to be supported by evidence.

I'm in agreement with both Andrew and Ken on this point, regarding the need for evidence to support the discussion, and I don't know how or where Wikipedia gets "its facts" .
However , I find it interesting that there are two unrelated sources indicating that there may have been sources for "reproduction A2 jackets" available in the UK during the war. I remember about a year ago I checked out a patched 82nd Airborne A2 jacket on Ebay . I believe (please don't hold me to this as it was a while ago) the jacket was described as a war time theater jacket made in England with a makers label supporting the claim. Now I realize nothing on Ebay can be regarded as fact unless completely checked out, but this was the first time I had ever seen a war time repro A2 made in England. Added to that, was it was an airborne A2 which sort of follows the discussion. Does anyone remember seeing this jacket?

Andrew or Ken;
My A2 identification skills are severely lacking compared to yours.
Does the "private purchase "A2 jacket photo above resemble a particular manufacturers A2?

 

[Roughwear]

The main picture is poor which does not help an ID.

 

[Smithy]

Although I'm not an A-2 expert one thing I can add about one of the photos that Burt has posted above, is that it carries a David Jones label. DJ are and were an upmarket department store that also offered a tailoring service (for men's suits) and also a garment alteration service. Just because it carries a DJ label doesn't necessarily mean that DJ made it, in fact I would imagine it's more likely they repaired the lining or repaired stitching, etc. I'm just not convinced that they would have been making copies of A-2 leather jackets.

BTW DJ is still going strong today. Their food hall at the Bourke St shop in Melbourne used to, and may very well still do, a bloody good rare roast beef and mustard sandwich, which I used to gnaw on on the train home.

 

[B-Man2]

German Theatre-made A-2 Flight jacket



This vintage A-2 leather flight jacket was made in the 1940s, either at the end of the war or during occupation. A-2s ceased to be produced in 1943, but remained popular with servicemen, leading to a secondary market for non-contract private production. Theatre made examples like this are rare, but were commissioned by Americans who wanted a jacket that was no longer available through official channels. It is made loosely to the A-2 pattern, with a shirt style collar secured by snaps, flapped, snapped patch pockets, knit cuffs and collar, and a zipper front with a wind flap. The jacket has a one piece back and two piece sleeves. Unlike contract examples, this one has a Prym snap closure on the windflap, which takes the place of the hook and eye fastening usually found on the collar stand. The jacket has war-time German hardware, with a Zipp main zipper (with the back marked DRP, which stands for Deutschers ReichsPatent, and points to a 1945 or before dating of manufacture of the zipper). All the snaps are PRYM brand. The jacket is lined with a typically German plaid, which has been heavily worn and has been patched. (Credited to The Art of Vintage Leather Jackets Blog)

While this has limited bearing on the discussion of wartime A2 jackets made in the UK, I think it does show that A2 reproductions were being made by various makers for US troops in a number of locations. I also thought that it was interesting, that while the wartime efforts drew down on all materials for the allies, this German maker still had enough materials to produce an A2 Repro. I would also offer that this is the third independent source that indicates that there was a "secondary market" for the production of A2 repro's specifically for US troops. Considering the large numbers of US Servicemen in the UK during that period of time, surely there exists more than a chance that clothiers and leather shops were producing A2 clones. There certainly seems to have been a market for them. The fact that we don't have existing representative examples of them isn't surprising considering the amount of time that has past. ( No disrespect intended for anyone's opinion here). We are continually updating our data in this hobby, for example, no less than a few months back didn't we just learn that there was an A2 maker, P. Goldsmith Sons Co, who produced a very limited number (25) of A2 jackets prior to the earliest Security Aviation Tog A2's?
Just some thoughts on the subject .....

 

[johnwayne]

Be interesting to know Wikipedia's source for said info and I for one certainly don't believe they are the oracle for everything!
Knowing say London's reputation for fine tailoring down the years one might understand why US servicemen might seek out a finely tailored jacket given how their wages would have gone far in the UK and it's well documented the lure of London was - a fairly easy journey from East Anglia or most south eastern bases. However, whilst tanneries existed in London and throughout the UK I'm sure you would find very few leather garment manufacturers existed going by books and films documenting the period. Even the UK military didn't use much leather, flying gear aside the only leather items I can think of are jerkins and gloves?
Also, although I believe it was only loosely imposed, weren't leather flight jackets only supposed to be used on duty plus let's face it, an A2 isn't exactly a practical jacket so i can't imagine why there would be a need! Believe me, my search for original A2's and G1's since the 70's has rarely turned up much in the way of UK made leather jackets/coats (apart from m/cycle styles) prior to that period!!

 

[Roughwear]

It is well known that some German Luftwaffe officers wore captured American A-2s and many wore privately purchased bike jackets. It is not inconceivable that the jacket shown above was made for a Luftwaffe officer who liked the style. There is still no conclusive proof that the jacket was made for a US aircrewman during the War. Much of the narrative with the jacket is speculative and not based on real historical evidence. You would need a document such as a letter or diary entry from a US airman to prove the jacket was made and purchased by him in Germany during the very late months of the War or post War.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I see the "German made" A-2 has had the zipper flipped so the slider is on the US side which would strongly suggest it was made for an American rather than a European. (which would make it post war....yes?)
.........and it appears to have no epaulettes