Can we all get along?

Discussion in 'Forum Questions / Problems' started by watchmanjimg, Oct 26, 2015.

  1. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

    Messages:
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    I was reading a recent thread in which there is a great deal of bickering between two forum members, both of whom have been around for some time and both of whom are in my opinion significant contributors to the forum even if I don't always agree with them (and even if they don't agree with one another on much of anything). Their names are unimportant for now but I'm sure it's no mystery whom I refer to. The nastiness of the exchange underscores the general decline of the forum lately (at least in my opinion), and while the following may not constitute a solution I would at least ask that each of us consider what made VLJ appealing in the first place. Was it a desire to antagonize people halfway across the country (or world), or was it to discuss topics in which we all share a common interest? For me it was and continues to be the latter.

    Is it really so hard to refrain from personal attacks on the forum?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    It's a fine idea - but my fear is that it's just the way things are these days. The anonymous or partially anonymous nature of the internet has turned good people into animals. Life - quality of life - has declined in so many ways. Most online forums are like this now and even people in real life tend to be this way.
    Not sure there's much to be done. I try to stay out of it if I can, but certainly forums in general have become more nasty. Most of mine are computer-related, and it's the same there too.

    Hoping for better times, but being realistic. Thanks for trying though. I'm with you...
     
  3. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

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    Butte, thanks for weighing in. You may say I'm a dreamer, but (apparently) I'm not the only one . . . ;)
     
  4. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, perfect line. I know over the years I've contributed to my share of arguments on threads, but I do try to be reasonable and not get too low when faced with opposing viewpoints. This place is small, and lots of sides have been taken over the years, making it so fewer people post.
    I take responsibility for my share, but try to improve as it's no good to anyone.

    Keep dreaming...it's worth it.
     
  5. oose

    oose Member

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    Well I try to get along with everybody and I know that I have not posted much of late, something that I shall try to remedy starting today! I think there should be debate and not every statement needs to be greeted with universal prase equally there is no reason to personally attack someone's posts. I hope we can have some lively discussions in the future and we can continue to learn from each other.

    all the best
    stu
     
  6. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Orlando, FL USA
    Stu, I agree that we shouldn't just fawn all over one another but of course there are common-sense limits to the manner in which disagreement is expressed. I regret not participating as much these days but work has been tough and I'm just not collecting as actively as I once did, at least partially due to some of the personalities encountered both locally and online. It gets old dealing with all the BS, and frankly I have so much stuff already that a break is warranted. This is no reason not to post on VLJ, though.
     
  7. 6148th T.C.Squadron

    6148th T.C.Squadron Member

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    I must have missed something or nothing at all.
     
  8. a2jacketpatches

    a2jacketpatches Active Member

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    Location:
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    Well, the answer for me is everyone but Van, sorry, but I won't beat around the bush on this. I just have to ask myself why this guy has such a hard on for me to put it bluntly.

    For those of you who missed the drama, see this - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=18719
    Frankly, it's beyond me why it took three pages to say "Sean, you are mistaken, I saw a comparable item sell on Ebay for $1000"
    Instead, we needle through it for some odd reason and I asked several questions that could have been answered on page one within a single statement. I was just trying to assist in the sale and understand why these were so valuable compared to all other flight pants. I also had it in the back of my mind that I would help using my Ebay accounts if needed, that's all. Then on top of that, Van shows up on his big white horse without a shred of flight pants knowledge for the sole purpose of striking me down. That's the beginning and end of that story, four pages as of today.

    I've been on this forum for a few years and have been in disagreements at times but all seems to work out in the end. Not long ago Van found it necessary to police my posts, usually out of nowhere and with very little if any input relevant to the topic being discussed. It seems he has appointed himself forum counselor and senior moderator. Now I can openly admit that I may seem a little abrasive at times and this lead me to question myself, jeez, am I really that bad. Well, after an actual forum appointed moderator encouraged me to continue as usual, I came to the conclusion that it is some type of Van disorder. Speaking of himself in the third person, so bold as to jump my case REGULARLY! as if he owns the place, Google it and it paints a pretty good picture. These what I can only call "pissing contests" end only after he proves that he can piss longer.

    So now here we are, member participation has dwindled to almost nothing. I think highly of most guys here and respect the knowledge. More often than not I'm seeking answers rather than giving them. But if things have broken down so much here that it's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer, and the moderating is left to non-moderators, I've about got one foot out the door with quite a few others.

    My wife is looking into Facebook for Business, and my Sis-in-Law tells me that I'm able to completely shut out and block the only guy on this globe that needs it. So that and the fact that quite a few of the members here have already made the transformation pretty much for the same reasons compels me to learn it like there's no tomorrow. I'll be there full scale a week from now. Should I stay here in an outdated format arguing every other week over nothing? Or should I move on to the new generation of networking where 99.9% of the world will be welcome and I can block the less than 1% and simply make him disappear?

    Moderators and owner don't get me wrong, I loved this forum and if allowed, maybe I'll just keep in touch using the Reproduction Manufactures section from now on where I might be relatively safe just offering my wares. It seems my personality conflicts with the membership social upper echelon, Van, and at this point I simply don't give a sh*t what some old fart from Indiana thinks and he can be Sheriff here from now on. :lol: No really, I just made myself laugh.
     
  9. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

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    2,098
    Location:
    Orlando, FL USA
    I'm not a moderator and have no idea whether I'm part of the "membership social upper echelon," which probably means that I'm not. However, I would urge you not to let this situation marginalize you within the forum. Over the years there have been members whose penchant for controversy was deemed to warrant their removal, be it voluntary or otherwise. I can't imagine you'd fall into this category. If Van or anyone else provokes you in an otherwise legitimate discussion it should be obvious who's to blame, but I would advise being the bigger person and carrying on as usual. We all have our ups and downs, but you've put in a lot of effort here and it would be a shame to throw it all away over foolishness.
     
  10. a2jacketpatches

    a2jacketpatches Active Member

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    3,137
    Location:
    Northern California
    You most certainly are not, we've disagreed before and I think at one point even butted heads like men do, and it's worked out like men work it out.

    As stated, only Van gets credit for that title. For someone to walk around as a guest in the forum owners house as JC put it, and tell others when to stop discussing a topic or he will continue to belittle and harass them, sorry but it's just not a cool place to hang anymore. That's is very obvious.

    "The anonymous or partially anonymous nature of the internet" and I'll finish Buttes statement with a small modification, has turned otherwise what should be humble guys into keyboard commandos. If we were all physically a guest somewhere do you think Van would say this stuff to my face? I think not. And would any host allow someone to walk around bullying other guests, I think not.

    In the thread that started all of this I was thinking that if it was me I would simply list in Ebay after the second or so post and see what happened. I was about to offer a little help in case mr-litz didn't have an Ebay account. Maybe a little cut or something to facilitate the sale. But really, four pages and we still don't know where, when, etc.? And then Van telling me to cease or he'll pick on me? The only foolishness would be to enter a thread knowing that the old fart is just hanging around with nothing to add but an insult sooner or later.

    I'm not throwing it all away either, Simply posting my new patches in the repro mfg. section should keep things in check. Pretty sure I don't need Van's approval regarding my artistic abilities.

    That's about all I really have to say about it before he pops in here, it just is what it is. The participation here pales in comparison to other options out there and Van has made it really suck for me.
     
  11. pawine

    pawine New Member

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    27
    Imagine how much it sucked for the member trying to sell a great pair of rare pants when you mistakenly muddied up his thread with false claims. Encouraging him that it was the right place to sell them but ensuring that all future prospective buyers see your claim that they are only worth $100. Can't blame Van for that.
     
  12. a2jacketpatches

    a2jacketpatches Active Member

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    Location:
    Northern California
    Another country heard from.

    If prospective buyers were to read on as most intelligent people would, they would see some development. So I'll say one more time as you must be the type you are referring to with selective comprehension, if we just cut to the chase and said "you were mistaken Sean, I saw a pair sell for $1000 on Ebay" then all would be said and done in 3-4 posts and any further questions I had would already be answered. That must have escaped you. There was no "Encouraging him that it was the right place" so I'm not sure really what you're talking about.

    With all of your participation here over the years, I mean year, for you to jump in here slamming your nose up another's behind with such a clouded view of the real point is another unfortunate situation. This is the perfect place for you.....and Van. A great place for guys to bully, gang up, etc.

    :roll:

    I'm done here so the next guy in the peanut gallery...you're exactly right, and the one after him, fine by me.

    Anyone that needs me for anything can find me in the Repro MFG. section
     
  13. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

    Messages:
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    Orlando, FL USA
    Take another look at the thread that prompted this discussion and you'll see that's not what happened at all. Sean may have been mistaken about the potential value of the pants (to the right buyer), but Van's remarks did nothing to correct the error. On the other hand, Andrew (Roughwear) was able to offer useful information about the pants without any personal attacks or offensive remarks. That's disagreeing without being disagreeable, which is what I've been advocating here all along.
     
  14. a2jacketpatches

    a2jacketpatches Active Member

    Messages:
    3,137
    Location:
    Northern California
    WOW! Can't help but reply just one more time. Guess all I can say is thanks. :D
     
  15. Rutger

    Rutger Active Member

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    That's exactly how it is.
    How hard can that be?
     
  16. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

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    For most of us, not hard at all. ;)
     
  17. unclegrumpy

    unclegrumpy Active Member

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    1,352
    Frankly, I think everyone is pretty much right, but coming from it from different angles.

    Valuing things is always tough, because the market changes. I think eBay is often too narrow a snapshot of what things are "worth", but so is relying on the highest price something ever sold for...or someone heard they sold for.

    Another thing I think we all sometimes forget, is these items were in the hands of the military, and the Government often does/did things that was totally illogical from a time and cost perspective. There are countless examples of all types of military gear that got reworked, refurbished, remarked, and put back on the shelf never to be used again....all at great cost and effort.

    These rare pants are a great example of that. They were only about 12 years old when they got inspected and marked with the AAF stamp in 1944. They were probably in the stacks of other fleece pants sitting on a shelf somewhere...a stack that was not sorted by contracts or model numbers, just serviceable pants. I also suspect these pants were at the bottom of that stack too, because we know they have a skinny fit in relation to the size tag, which means the average guy that size would try them on and then hand them back for another pair. This helps explain a few of the many possibilities of why they might have survived....but probably only just a few.

    Anyway, I hope everyone can shake hands and move on from this.
     
  18. watchmanjimg

    watchmanjimg Active Member

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    Nicely put.
     
  19. ButteMT61

    ButteMT61 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Pasadena, CA USA
    Christ, that thread offered up a good discussion. Sure, it got a lil messy here and there, but I'm glad to see it hammered out and in the end, the seller DID get good info.

    I know I was laughed at a whole back when I had the nerve to say that the market had softened and prices were dropping - but look around, it's true.

    I growing up on the East coast, I tend to like a cheeky dialog. Nothing wrong with it and if we can keep the name calling and finger pointed out, it's often the best way to learn something. I did.
     
  20. mr_lits

    mr_lits Member

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    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Feel as though I should chip in here as I started the thread in question. I know I am new around here but I came to this forum for a reason. I believe that we are a community of highly knowledgeable individuals and have excellent discussion on topics that interest me. With petty quarreling happening here it makes me want to take part less and that sucks. We should be endeavoring to generate posts and threads to stimulate the flow of ideas. I would like to thank those who added to the dialogue of that thread to help educate me on the value and history of the trousers. It was certainly not my intent to start a fire with this one.
     

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