Buzz M-41 comparison

[asiamiles]

Thought some might be interested in this comparison of two different Buzz M-41. On the left is one they did several years ago exclusively for Tokyo Phantom, on the right is their more recent model. The small differences: a slightly different shade, the TP seems a fraction softer/lighter but that may just be because the jacket has been worn (and I think washed), the stitching and length of the cuff strap, the lining goes right to end of the sleeve of the TP jacket. I doubt all originals were exactly the same so I'm not sure if one is any more accurate than the other...maybe someone who owns one may be able to offer a more expert opinion.

 

[Peter Graham]

I've checked my original and the stitching on the cuff adjuster tab is exactly like the left hand photo. On mine the sleeve lining stops about 10mm short of the cuff, like your right hand photo. As you say, it's doubtful that all originals were the same so both your jackets could be accurate. As for the shade, this varied on originals so either is correct. We need more M-41's for comparison.

 

[foster]

I've owned maybe half a dozen originals but now have only one or two remaining. The sleeves tend to have the lining fall short of the cuff as in the newer repro from Buzz, but I did have one of these with shortened sleeves. So let's not forget that one with shortened sleeves may have been copied for the TP one.
The cuffs would wear and fray and shortening the sleeves just slightly would make them look new again.

 

[jack31916]

Have a look on this old topic co check out with originals.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6221

Anyway, I like the Buzz M-41 for the used materials, lining, buttons and zipps.

How about the WW2 Impression, ATF and SM Wholesale ones. Any experience with those jackets?

Regards

 

[asiamiles]

one with shortened sleeves may have been copied for the TP one.

Makes sense. To be honest I could do with the sleeves being shorter, so might try shortening them a bit and taking up the lining at the same time...of course, the cuff adjuster prevents one doing this too far.

 

[foster]

How about the WW2 Impression, ATF and SM Wholesale ones. Any experience with those jackets?

It's been a while since I saw one of the WWII Impressions ones. I have not seen a SM Wholesale. ATF has made a few different batches over the last few years, some decent but some with problems. Some of my friends have written detailed reviews on reproduction M41 field jackets that can be found at this link:
http://90thidpg.us/Equipment/Reviews/index.html

asiamiles, on an original M41 field jacket I used to own which had shortened sleeves, I believe the cuff adjusting tabs were also moved. But I am not 100% certain of this now as it has been five or six years since I sold that jacket.

 

[dmar836]

Just move the tabs up as well. You can go all the way to the bar tack. That could even be easily redone but doubt anyone would ever shorten the sleeves that much.
JMO
Dave

 

[jack31916]

How about the WW2 Impression, ATF and SM Wholesale ones. Any experience with those jackets?

It's been a while since I saw one of the WWII Impressions ones. I have not seen a SM Wholesale. ATF has made a few different batches over the last few years, some decent but some with problems. Some of my friends have written detailed reviews on reproduction M41 field jackets that can be found at this link:
http://90thidpg.us/Equipment/Reviews/index.html

asiamiles, on an original M41 field jacket I used to own which had shortened sleeves, I believe the cuff adjusting tabs were also moved. But I am not 100% certain of this now as it has been five or six years since I sold that jacket.

Thanks for the link. I like these comparisons from a collector/re-enactor's point of view.

Regards

 

[EmergencyIan]

This is from the History Preservation Associates website regarding Buzz Rickson's most recent version of the M-1941/M-41 field jacket (though, I don't see it on their website any longer, at least part of the story behind the jacket being produced is because Charles DiSipio's father wore the same model of the M-41 during the war. From what I recall, he pushed it's production along. They also produced a limited number of jackets with the same patches as a replica of his father's M-41):

In the late 1930’s the U. S. Army Quartermaster Corps began developing a rugged jacket strictly for field use, camp guard duty, and for working wear, thus this new style would replace the wool four-pocket blouse worn by Enlisted Men (EM) that was then being used for both field and service dress, thus rendering the four-pocket blouse exclusive to service dress. Several jacket styles and types were ultimately tested between 1938-1940 before a final design was chosen. The new jacket design was attributed to Major General James K. Parsons, hence it was sometimes referred to as the “Parsons Jacket,” though it was officially accepted by the Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot (PQD) on August 20, 1940 as simply Tentative Spec. "Windbreaker, Cotton, Flannel Lined." This spec. was modified slightly on October 7, 1940 before it was finally developed as "Jackets, Field" PQD Tentative Spec. No. 20 dated January 24, 1941. The new Field Jacket never had an "M" prefix followed by the date of acceptance assigned to it such as M-1941 or M-41, and it was always referred to in the U. S. Army at the time as a "Field Jacket." The references "M-41 Field Jacket" or "M-1941 Field Jacket" are names given to this jacket style by post-war militaria collectors and, though this name is perfectly acceptable for collectors or even historians to use in distinguishing this jacket style, it is not a technically or historically correct designation for the jacket; it is both technically and historically correct to simply refer to this first version of the U. S. Army Field Jacket as the "Spec. 20 Field Jacket.”

The Spec. 20 Field Jacket evolved through Spec. 20A to its final version, the Spec. 20B; the sum of these spec. modifications incorporated various changes in lining fabric, jacket features and fit, though the Spec. 20B was still visibly traceable back to the original spec. The U. S. Army Quartermaster Corps officially adopted the final spec. change as Jackets, Field, O. D. Tentative Spec. 20B on March 17, 1942, with contracts awarded for production following immediately thereafter. This Spec. 20B was the version produced in the greatest numbers, though outwardly it cannot be distinguished from Spec. 20A if only viewed from wartime photos. According to the specs. all spec. versions of the Olive Drab Field Jacket outer shell could be made from either a tight-weave cotton poplin that repelled wind and water, or a heavier-weight cotton twill as used on production of the pocket and inner linings for the Enlisted Men's wool overcoats and their wool four-pocket blouses; this same cotton twill was eventually also used to make the outer shell of the famous “Tanker Jackets” and Parachutist two-piece suits. Though extant examples of Olive Drab Field Jackets from spec. 20 – 20B can be found with outer shells fabricated from the cotton twill, the sheer numbers of those extant jackets with poplin outer shells can lead to a reasonable conclusion that poplin was indeed the overwhelmingly dominant fabric employed in making the outer shells. The exterior cotton shell color was Olive Drab shade no. 3 for all specs. of the Olive Drab Field Jacket, which could vary in shading between bronze to nearly khaki, but always with the hue of olive drab present; never was the Field Jacket produced in any of its spec. changes from true khaki-colored fabric as used in production of the summer uniform for officers and enlisted ranks. The Spec. 20B shared with Spec. 20A a cheap (cheap when compared to the EM shirt fabric) wool-and-cotton-blend flannel lining that was the same material used to make the gas flaps on EM shirts, trousers and the gas-protective hoods, all of which were introduced in 1942. This mostly woolen lining could vary as much in color as the outer shell, though the shade was darker than the outer shell and could be considerably more green in hue. The size of each jacket produced under Spec. 20B was marked in the same manner as was the case with Spec. 20A jackets: Printed on a sewn-in label in the neck area of the lining (smaller embroidered size labels appeared on some jackets at the end of Spec. 20B production) and also appearing in the right pocket printed on the label that displayed all of the technical data pertaining to the jacket and the contractor that produced it. One significant label change began with Spec. 20B: These labels in the right pocket now had the addition of the jacket designation printed on them - “Jackets, Field, O. D.”

Production of the Spec. 20B jackets continued well into 1943 before they were superseded by the then-new M-1943 Field Jacket, though some production of the Spec. 20B field Jackets overlapped production of the M-1943 Field Jackets, thus the two different Field Jacket styles were produced simultaneously for some time. Ultimately, the Olive Drab Field Jacket had to be replaced by something better and the M-43 Field Jacket was just that. The Olive Drab Field Jacket proved inadequate for its intended purpose, being flimsy, not very warm, poor in repelling rain and with pockets too small and too few to be of much use, and too light in color to camouflage the wearer well in the countryside of Northwestern Europe; it was seen as essentially worthless by many infantrymen. But the Olive Drab Field Jacket was all the U. S. military had at the time and it was issued to the vast majority of EM and officers serving in the U. S. Army during WWII, becoming the ubiquitous combat jacket of the U. S. Army in WWII and seeing combat from the earliest battles in the N. Africa and Italy, through the Pacific, China, India and Burma, then culminating in the great war-winning battlefields of NW Europe in Normandy, the Ardennes and right into the heart of Germany. These jackets even saw issue to the USAAF, U. S. Navy and the USMC, standing out as the definitive jacket style for the U. S. military in WWII. If ever an iconic military jacket style existed, the Olive Drab Field Jacket or M-41, if you prefer, is it.

Due to the legendary status of the Olive Drab Field Jacket, it has been copied many times in the post-war years for both casual wear and military history re-enactors, including production by fashion designer Ralph Lauren. These many copies vary in degrees of historical accuracy from so-so to quite decent, and some of the more-recent generations produced for military re-enactors being the best made to date. But it is always the case that some full measure wasn’t taken to truly pay homage to this classic jacket style and those who heroically wore it in battle, leaving those who want a copy that is as close as can be to the original garment and sparing no expense feeling unsatisfied. It is for these historical purists we offer this Buzz Rickson’s masterpiece, lovingly crafted of custom-made materials following all of the original specs., including the correct size grades and measurements for an uncompromising original fit and a meticulous color matching of all components to the typical Spec. 20B jacket produced in 1942. It is the quintessential nature of Spec. 20B that prompted Buzz Rickson’s to produce this version of the famous field jacket, and leave it to Buzz Rickson’s to go where no Olive Drab Field Jacket copy has gone before, utilizing New-Old-Stock brass Conmar Conmatic zippers from 1942 to top off the pedigree of this all-time classic. The Buzz Rickson’s Olive Drab Field Jacket Spec. 20B is, without question, the only of its kind outfitted with New-Old-Stock wartime zippers, and as such it is indeed a piece of WWII history itself. Please note the following authentic details and features:

•Exact copy of contractor label printed on off-white cotton and sewn on two sides in right pocket.

•Exact copy of the correct-size, early-style size label printed on off-white cotton and sewn in the lining neck area.

•Custom production of the original-style urea buttons colored to the more-brownish hues typical of 1942 production.

•Custom manufacturing of the correct 5-ounce cotton poplin produced on vintage looms of the 1940’s and dyed to a typical 1942 shade of Olive Drab 3 using the old-style dyes.

•Custom manufacturing of the correct wool-and-cotton flannel lining produced on vintage looms of the 1940’s and dyed to a typical 1942 shade of Olive Drab using the old-style dyes.

•Three-position hip-adjusting tab on left and right jacket bottom edge to help seal out wind.

•Two-position adjusting tab on the sleeve end cuff to help seal out wind

•Sewn bar tacks on all major stress points as per spec. 20B, including pocket corners.

•Two slash-style, internally hung pockets on jacket front, lined in a golden shade of cotton twill that correctly matches some of the pocket linings found on original Spec. 20B jackets.

•Genuine New-Old-Stock 1942 Conmar Conmatic brass zippers. Yes, you read correctly; this is a GENUINE WWII zipper that was never previously used and is in PERFECT working condition, making this jacket a limited edition of genuine WWII history accurate in every detail.

•Bi-swing double-pleated action back for superb range of movement.

•Gusseted armpit for greater range of movement and comfort.

•Button-down epaulettes precisely matching the shape, size and spacing commonly found on the original Spec. 20B jackets.

•Precise pattern grading matching the exact measurements employed for production of the original Spec. 20B jackets in sizes 34R –46R, including such critical areas as neck drop, shoulder slope, armhole opening, shoulder width, etc. Because of this uncompromising attention to authenticity in fit and fabrics, this Buzz Rickson’s Spec. 20B will fit, drape and look exactly as did the original Spec. 20B jackets when worn.


I own one and have owned an original along with an At The Front M-41. The Buzz Rickson version is probably as close to the real deal that you will find. It's very, very close, if not exact, to the original that I owned for a few years. The only difference that I noticed is with sizing... my original is a size 36R and I could wear it comfortably (most, if not all, of the US WWII jackets and HBT shirts/jackets are oversized for layering, I guess). I tried a Buzz M-41 is size 36R and it was slightly too small. I had to go with the 38R and it fits beautifully. In fact, every Buzz jacket/coat that I have owned has been a size 38R.

- Ian