Buttoned Pocket Flaps A-2 Jackets

Discussion in 'Vintage' started by 33-1729, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    106
    Yes, there may have been no manufacturer label like seen on an A-1 or one added like on the SAT 32-485 or maybe a single signed/unsigned label like on the latter A-2's. It is a guess.

    From digging into P. Goldsmith Sons Co. recently I tend to think they would have added a manufacturing label like the "Security Aviation Togs" in the SAT 32-485. Why? Goldsmith was trying to become a major manufacturing figure at that time and publicity is key. I noticed that Goldsmith pre-1933 placed their trade mark on everything I could find, such as the embossed version on a child's boxing glove set below.

    G_box.JPG

    I also noticed the first company name listed on the A-1 (not A-2) vendor bid list for A-1 test jackets was A. G. Spalding & Bros., Inc. (pg. 116 in Mr. Eastman’s excellent reference book). Yes, Spalding became more popular than Goldsmith in the end, but I wonder if Goldsmith was chosen for a batch of A-2 jackets as a possible competitor to Spalding at that time.

    The iron cross trade mark logo may have been why Hap Arnold changed his jacket later.

    https://www.ebth.com/items/1629984-child-s-vintage-goldsmith-sons-boxing-gloves
     
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  2. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    Glad to see yours are black & white, we've just ordered these
    180704-02 ASQ - GOLD SMITH (3).jpg 180704-03 ASQ - TYPE A-2 (3).jpg
     
  3. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Yes Spalding was a prolific producer of flight gear in the 1920's-1930's. I have done a lot of research on them because I will be reproducing some of their civilian flight jacket models. I am just waiting for our newly sourced Capeskin to be tanned, and we will be ready to go. I have the labels already!
    comp-label.jpg

    Nice find on the boxing gloves! It appears to me that Goldsmith took their early 1930's clothing label format off the 1928 baseball logo, and cleaned it up a bit. Note that on the baseball logo, the text is not centered in the outer circle and Ohio is abbreviated "O." It seems that they wanted to correct these for the cloth version because the slight changes were made.

    Baseball: Cloth:
    Goldsmith-Label-6.jpg Goldsmith-Label-10.jpg

    Regards,
    Jay
     
  4. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Nice Ken! I had toyed with using gold on black but decided to go with white because there are examples of the white label in clothing from the period. I did find some gold on black ones on some gloves, but not the same design or time period.
     
  5. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    1926-1933 Goldsmith Baseball Logo The first appearance of this logo has yet to be identified in a catalog but many of theses baseballs start to show up with a number of Babe Ruth autographs with "Babe" in quotation marks, a practice that Babe Ruth stopped doing by 1928. The logo has been identified in a 1932 catalog. The Goldsmith logo cross remains the same from the era before with "GOLDSMITH" pinched between the words "TRADE" & MARK" but the outer circle now reads "THE P. GOLDSMITH SONS CO." over the top, and at the bottom "CINCINNATI, O. U.S.A."
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,181
    Here's a couple pics of Frank Andrews rocking his SAT. The last photo everyone knows from Suit Up!

    Frank_Andrews_full.jpg AndrewsSAT.jpg A2.jpg
     
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  7. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    Hi Jay

    Good luck with The Spalding, there's some unique designs in their catalogue, I'm assuming you've got a copy? If not I think we've got one lying around somewhere I could get some scans

    PS Nice label
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  8. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    Traditionally, Black & Gold was far more common on labelling from the era, not that that means a thing other than in the law of averages and the gold looks far more classy IMO
    I'm going to find it far harder to live with the dodgy buttonholes but I was reminded today that we already fit these in our WW2 replica Soviet Flying Jackets.
     
  9. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Thanks Ken! I do have the catalog. I also located quite a few images of some original Spalding gear. There are 3 jackets in particular that I am working on.

    It will be great to see what we come up with our interpretations of this Goldsmith jacket. Exciting times!
     
  10. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    Jay...........Word of warning, I cast my mind back a few decades, we did toy with the idea of replicating a Spalding piece in the late 80s but it was a non starter, Spalding Sportswear is a well known and protected brand, well it was back then and they are still trading.
    https://www.spalding.com/
     
  11. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    645
    We'll probably only do a full set of test jackets, one of a size, then choose the right leather and do a Limited Edition of 25
    I don't see this as a seller that'll compare with any of the Aero repros
     
  12. zoomer

    zoomer Well-Known Member

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    1,747
    Location:
    Gerbracht Aeronautic Corp.
    Inset from a 1936 pic - civilian engineer(?) at Wright Field. Note no patch pockets - flap only.
    Screen Shot 2018-07-04 at 9.20.04 AM.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  13. 2BM2K

    2BM2K Active Member

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Sussex
    Still not convinced by the cross logo. Not sure that it will look right.

    Searching around the cross logo appears on all sorts of sporting equipment.

    This is a 1927 golf club with the word Goldsmith on it;
    ma285.jpg


    A clothing label can be more expansive.

    Found this Ebay auction for a baseball uniform with Goldsmith label. It states 1920's but who knows?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/20s-Plainv...186532?hash=item1ee4c5ca64:g:5qMAAOSw3BNa8I2t
     
  14. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    106
    I’ve been looking at a number of 1929 to 1932 Goldsmith labels across bats, gloves, jerseys, etc. and all of the cloth labels write out “Ohio” rather than abbreviate it as seen on other items. A couple more cloth label examples are below (clearly this cloth label maker existed).

    GoldSmithh.JPG

    GoldSmithi.JPG

    I also noticed that the cloth Goldsmith trade mark label is only sewn on the bottom and sides and not the top. Does anyone know why this might be?
     
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  15. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

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    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This club could very well be from the 20's. It is certainly pre 1935 as it also has the Iron Cross. GS used the printed name on there bats too but it is always accompanied by the Iron Cross logo up until the mid 30's. It appears that around 1932-1935 they dropped the Iron Cross and kept the printed name. Probably because of the NAZI association and possibly in part because of the Army's rejection of the A-2 contract. This is speculation, but something made them drop the Iron Cross logo. No small deal as they had been using this logo prolifically since the early 1900's.
    ma285-2.jpg
     
  16. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Looks like the white label is only sewn on the sides and not the bottom and top. That could possibly double as a hang tag. The gold one, not sure.

    On the logo, true about Ohio. I have yet to find evidence on a cloth label with the "O." abbreviation. Also not sure when the "Guaranteed Athletic Goods" slogan was used. On the 1926-1932 label it has"P. Goldsmith Sons CO" in that position. I don't believe they would have put the "Guaranteed Athletic Goods" version on the A-2. Also I have yet to find a black and gold label with the "P. Goldsmith Sons CO" on it. They all seem to have "Guaranteed Athletic Goods" on the circular black and gold labels.
     
  17. zoomer

    zoomer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,747
    Location:
    Gerbracht Aeronautic Corp.
    Honestly, I don't think the US Army was all that anti-Nazi before we got in. Not if all the toothbrush mustaches on pilots are anything to go by.
     
  18. Persimmon

    Persimmon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,349
    Location:
    Nottingham England
    Anyone fancy doing a quick summary of these 11 pages plus.
    The older I get the harder it is to keep focussed.
     
  19. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is the part I love most about making reproductions. The research and new discoveries. Sometimes it feels like Christmas when you make a new discovery in old photos or documents. Exciting!

    These picture and document based reproductions of are always chock full of new discoveries and "A-Ha" moments.

    Love it!
     
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  20. 33-1729

    33-1729 Active Member

    Messages:
    106
    I recall reading my grandparents early 1930’s Encyclopedia Britannia when I was a kid and it referenced Hitler as an insignificant dictator. I’m paraphrasing, but I remember it because it was so far off base. With it being over a decade since WWI I don’t think the iron cross was as ill-perceived at that time as it was later during WWII.

    I have found information on eBay, but I always confirm the information elsewhere before using it as I don’t consider eBay a reliable source.
     

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