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BK Victory Horse™ Hide
- Thread starter marco77
- Start date
for the most part I couldn't give a toss about reviews, I mean they are fun to read but that's it.. it's pictures that push me over the edge to part with money. I have no idea why there is so much hate for BK, I think they're jackets look awesome.. and I like Platons contributions to the forum. What's the big deal?
Time to give him a break I think.
Time to give him a break I think.
omarco said:
I agree. This is my first post though, so in the usual forum rules, it carries little weight. I am not sure why all this causes so much invective but I expect it is down to the waiting, the expense, the anticipation, the expectation, the disappointment and the frustration, associated with buying jackets from around the world over the internet.
BK is all over the forums and their jackets look as good as any out there. I enjoy the banter and am eagerly waiting for mine. I just wish the tannery would get its finger out.
Nick
ButteMT61
Well-Known Member
ausreenactor said:
1) You buying a jacket is not what I'm talking about, don't be coy.
2) You started the "I got PM's kissing my buttocks". I simply posted the same. No doubt people on both sides of this issue PM one another talking smack about the others. Nothing new there.
3) After many things that passed, I decided to opt out of the BK I was indeed seriously thinking about. Posts talking down to people on their knowledge and inferior leathers used by others, combined with info that he was dissing my jacket in PM's told me to back away and move on to someone I trust.
Then, as bad as the nay-sayers are the guys here that kept talking about how awesome BK was before even having a jacket. Then some get them and you don't hear anything again until it's being sold somewhere.
Add to that the fact that Jeff still has no jacket and I'm out. The replies from PLATON in this thread alone should make potential buyers think twice. They "don't pay for reviews" but the offer up a small stipend for a review after? Gimme a break.
A
Anonymous
Guest
You see Van, I can't get a break.
Because some cannot accept that some out of the blue maker managed in no time to make better jackets than others who try for 30+ years? Envious? Suspcious? Maybe I don't know.
I said many times that we are in a country in distress. Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures. I did't say anything bad about the other makers, I said "if you want try BK, we can do better. We have better leathers etc" This is an offer. If you don't want it you don't take it.
I believe the marketing flood was sorted out and was limited to the Reproduction Makers section where it belongs. I respected all the rules and don't post BK outside there. They guys who get pissed off because I informed them about BK's new products were those who would never be BK's customers anyway. If you like the product, you don't get put off because of the advertising. I am sick of seeing Vodafone and iPhone ads but 9 out of 10 people have them/use them.
Not true but you have the right to believe whatever you want.
I have sent PM to some asking them what it would take to stop the slandering. At BK we give jackets free for promotion, so handing a few jackets to the disbelievers was not a bad idea. Actually the offer was not for free, it was "try before you buy".
We did not implement it yet. But I 'd like to hear Van's opinion on that. Van which BK style you like? Or shall we knock off an Aero for you? We are good at repros. Please let me know. If you refuse to accept a free jacket then something's going on, you are biased. No?
Why my friend? Are you not interested in a good jacket? Potentially a better jacket than the others (using better leathers)? Maybe I am telling the truth and the leathers are indeed better. Aren't you curious to see? Are you a jacket fan? Or a maker's fan?
Not talking down to people, enlightening them. You have no idea about the misconceptions that exist (and some try to maintain) in the forums. Every attempt to educate you was taken as an insult. Well, you don't know as much about leathers as a maker does. It's a fact. How else to tell you?
Do you think the "Beast" here
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 158&type=1
is anything less that what you see in those photos?
Some internet buyers (including myself) have been scammed by internet sellers by buying a product that looked excellent in the photos but then receiving something of obvious inferior quality compared to the photo that led to purchasing.
With us the situation is the opposite. You will receive a jacket that is better than what you see in the photos. GUARANTEED. Let me spell it for you G U A R A N T E E D. Or your money back. Its' TOO easy to find out. For example, we sell BADALASSI cowhide which everyone knows is the BEST cowhide out there and the Japanese and GW use it. What's stopping you from buying it? Our construction is solid, the leather ROCKS and we're the F%^#% cheapest dammit. To give you the F*&^&**^ opportunity to try us. What more DO YOU NEED?
I don't see anybody selling a Victory horse jacket. I see many selling ELC, GW, Aero though. What does that mean?
The situation with Jeff is resolved. I am just waiting to see how objective Jeff will be in his review, if he makes one.
Ha ha ha. Of course we don't pay. The discount applies on the second jacket. Many customers who bought Victory horse when they received it immediately ordered a second. Customers from Germany and Japan have bought 5 each. When those customers came back for more, we felt it was prudent to offer them a discount and if they were happy with the product to write a review to thank us. They said "thanks not interested".
Finally, many people here stated that they don't care about my posts. The only "resistance" if you Scott, Jeff and Van. It's fun arguing with you but please don't poke me otherwise I don't see when we will stop.
As a friend I am asking you, what can I do for you to make you change your mind? to make you stop complaining? BK's mission is to satisfy their customers and have ONLY friends. We can make you jackets that will make you happy, GUARANTEED. Name what it is you want me to do and I will comply.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I made a review here with photographic evidence
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 158&type=3
showing that our Star A-2 jacket is identical to the original. There have been more photos (as worn photos) elsewhere. No comments were needed, the photos spoke by themselves.
Of course, I guess that this review DOES NOT COUNT because I made it myself.
We can send you a jacket to review and also can send you an original and one from every maker.
ButteMT61
Well-Known Member
PLATON, as a friend, I PM'd you a few times stating that I wanted to help you help yourself by not posting things that pissed off people and made you/BK look bad. That was an honest offering, and while it seemed to help for a short time, it then went back to "normal".
I then heard about talk of my Ventura that not only I love, but most folks gave positive feedback in one of the longest "new jacket" threads on TFL. Rightly so, it's a great jacket - and I sold four others because of it.
Now, I hear you're telling people "something is wrong" with that jacket offline. Frankly, that was it.
Never mind all the other isolating things you've posted - like the thread where the guy posted up definitions for leather or the like. It was very informative, but you chimed in that essentially, most of us were too ignorant to understand what we were looking at. You can't do that sort of thing as a representative of a jacket maker in a jacket forum and come away unscathed.
Now, the funny thing is Couchy. He's your man - even posted his BK, er, work bonus up here for everyone to see - now that's tact! But he has animosity towards JC/GW much like he/you accuse others of in regards to you/BK.
Anyone that's been around can tell that from his posts. So I guess you're the shiny horse he mounted to try and dethrone GW. OK, have at it, but I doubt he's worried. And you sure don't see him posting up smack about other's jackets, leather, knowledge. Same goes fro Ken at Aero, and Diamond Dave, and other makers. Only BK does this type of "marketing". So that's what causes the flak. Nothing else.
You can take the criticisms to heart and move on, or keep doing what you do. If you have so many guys "buying five jackets" then I guess you can truly afford to keep it up. I'm happy for you - I don't know how many makers get that sort of return rate. I do know many here and TFL have multiple Aero, GW, ELC so you're in good company.
Best of luck. Scott
I then heard about talk of my Ventura that not only I love, but most folks gave positive feedback in one of the longest "new jacket" threads on TFL. Rightly so, it's a great jacket - and I sold four others because of it.
Now, I hear you're telling people "something is wrong" with that jacket offline. Frankly, that was it.
Never mind all the other isolating things you've posted - like the thread where the guy posted up definitions for leather or the like. It was very informative, but you chimed in that essentially, most of us were too ignorant to understand what we were looking at. You can't do that sort of thing as a representative of a jacket maker in a jacket forum and come away unscathed.
Now, the funny thing is Couchy. He's your man - even posted his BK, er, work bonus up here for everyone to see - now that's tact! But he has animosity towards JC/GW much like he/you accuse others of in regards to you/BK.
Anyone that's been around can tell that from his posts. So I guess you're the shiny horse he mounted to try and dethrone GW. OK, have at it, but I doubt he's worried. And you sure don't see him posting up smack about other's jackets, leather, knowledge. Same goes fro Ken at Aero, and Diamond Dave, and other makers. Only BK does this type of "marketing". So that's what causes the flak. Nothing else.
You can take the criticisms to heart and move on, or keep doing what you do. If you have so many guys "buying five jackets" then I guess you can truly afford to keep it up. I'm happy for you - I don't know how many makers get that sort of return rate. I do know many here and TFL have multiple Aero, GW, ELC so you're in good company.
Best of luck. Scott
A
Anonymous
Guest
Scott, I appreciate your friendly advice and despite our differences (which are silly btw) I like you.
I never said anything about your jacket because I have not seen it. What you refer about the definitions it wasn't me. I have an account on TFL but I don't write anymore. If you look you will find my very old posts. Also, you confuse me with Andy. Andy is the customer service guy of BK. My job at BK is to GUARANTEE your satisfaction. How I do it? I personally select all the materials used by BK. BK makes the jackets and I supervise everything because "my name is on the line". When I GUARANTEE you, I want everything to be perfect. I inspect every jacket before shipping. Andy is not the owner of BK as many people think. Andy is like a manager. The BK shop is owned by Elias and Thomas an expat American guy from Chicago. They sold the business to some English guys but kept the management. Their agreement is effective from 1 Jan 2014. I cannot control what Andy does or says, and I don't know his feelings. Also, you might be aware that I am good friend with the maker of Venturas and I don't slander GW. I own GW jackets which I bought secondhand to avoid the waiting and now plan to order one from John directly.
I am interested in what you say and I will ask Andy about it and I will let you know what he said.
Couchy is not my man. Couchy is just so sick of your (not yours in particular) unfounded and never ending accusations and revolted. In the end you will tell me I dictate his posts.
Nobody said anything about dethroning anyone. All the makers can make excellent jackets and please their customers. I am perfectly happy with that. What is unacceptable is makers cheating their customers (it has happened) and what is even more unacceptable is cheating them in their face and customers not noticing it (it happens all the time).
Your (not particularly yours) colorful posts fuels my replies because I feel you are not fair and this goes on forever. I would like it to stop but I would be happier if we could find a good compromise where everybody will be happy.
Van, the "business tactics" is meaningless, bull..., cheap excuses. The bottom line is, if I say BK makes better jackets than e.g. Aero, I must have a reason. Maybe I know something you don't. You can call me to prove it. We could compare jackets and I can show you plenty of reasons which is better and why. But I wouldn't want to do it in public for obvious reasons.
I want to stop the blah blah because it's boring and let the jackets speaks as you say. Please don't poke me any more.
We can offer you guys anything you want to prove you BK jackets are equal to the other makers and be happy. Put the bitterness behind us. Let's be friends.
Scott, I really mean it when I said I like you. We 'll make the best blue A-1 for you. If you don't want to buy, return it.
Van, you are an artist man, can you see BK's jackets are work of art and thus we 're confrères? Let's shake hands man!
Jeff, you will like the jacket I am sure. Sorry about the waiting. It's the single malt we're making for you.
ButteMT61
Well-Known Member
OK, I know I will hate myself later... When you get the Dark Blue Badassee hide, let me know. I will get my measurements together. I will take you up on that and move on. And I will post up an honest review like I do with all my jackets.
I think many - including myself at times - think you and Andy are the same person - your writing style is the same and it's possible that the critique of my jacket was "him". And BTW, I always state in my jacket reviews that I want 100% honest feedback. I've taken the good with the bad - the bad ends up with a flipped jacket. No jacket was ever bad, but some of the fits were off - esp on 2nd hand or sale jackets. I've never shied away from honest opinion on my jackets - and I give the same in return, or I just don't comment at all - I often just take that road.
I've never disliked you, but I have been incredibly p*ssed at some of the posts - as have you been of me.
It's the internet, and well, that's kinda how things seem to work. It's easy to lay down smack to those you won't see or don't "know" in person. I don't frequent any forum that doesn't have that problem.
There's lots of reason not to like the online "me". I don't come in trying to make enemies, but I don't try to falsely suck up either. Going camping for three days in the rain and mud. Talk later.
Vcruiser
Well-Known Member
PLATON said:
I like that word 'free'. Surely it means the same in Greek as it does English. Sure..send me a free utility jacket(your choice) in that Badassi hide. Size 40..26 1/2" body length..26 1/4" sleeve length..and I'll sing your song with you..no matter how much it pisses Butte and Jeff off! I'd really really like for it to arrive before Jeff gets his jacket,too...and thanks.
Van
Otter
Well-Known Member
Most posts I have seen here for a while! :lol: Glad things are settling down and I for one am looking forward to seeing these jackets, especially the blue one.
I saw piccies of the old cammo lined A2, I hope the "Beast" looks as good as it does in your photos. I have a little of the cammo parachute material that was used in the original, I wear it as a scarf.
I saw piccies of the old cammo lined A2, I hope the "Beast" looks as good as it does in your photos. I have a little of the cammo parachute material that was used in the original, I wear it as a scarf.
foster
Well-Known Member
PLATON said:
That is an excellent photo comparison! Good job of placing the original and replica together to show how they match up. Personally I like reviews like this one, I think it does count. For me, it counts for more than typed text as it shows evidence. You should do more photo comparisons like this.
I would be glad to review one of your jackets, but I must be honest that I do not know very much about the leather hides to speak with any credibility on those. Since it is the main component of the jacket, it is an important subject to know about. This is why I am more scrutinizing on the cloth jackets topic, as I am knowledgeable on the topic of fabrics and textiles first and foremost.
Peter Graham
Well-Known Member
Frankly, I find Platons non BK related posts rather strange. A bit unhinged and slightly juvenile. As for his style of marketing BK jackets on this forum, it just puts me off ever buying one. As for the product, it looks top notch. One of these days I may consider a new A-2 repro. I wouldn't rule BK out, but if it wasn't for Platon I may have ruled them in a lot more. I'd find it hard to deal with someone who thinks 80's pop music is great !
It's very sad that what seems now to be the posting majority on this Forum, have total ignorance of the "How and Why" of this particular Forum's origin.
Chris, the owner, if that is the correct word, while studying/ practicing medicine, took the time, effort, and funded this Forum, because of a love of the HOBBY, because you see kiddies (Yeah you Couchy),the previous Jacket Forums' degenerated partly due to this type of commercial corruption. He, with the "Donated" considerable time and efforts of John and Bill, have given us a place to continue on with our shared addiction. If any of the new/newer members took the time to go back and read and understand all this, you would find he did this with one aim and only one aim, INTEGRITY. Integrity, what a great concept, if you want to actually see it in practice,observe John Chapman's conduct RE: Goodwear, THAT is Integrity, Dignity and Class. I'll shut up here and apologize to Chris for any inaccuracies in my remembering's.
P.S. Platon, after reading what you have laid down these past few pages, other than finding your continuance on this course of yours incomprehensible, I have the sudden feeling I could actually blow smoke rings out of my ass.
Chris, the owner, if that is the correct word, while studying/ practicing medicine, took the time, effort, and funded this Forum, because of a love of the HOBBY, because you see kiddies (Yeah you Couchy),the previous Jacket Forums' degenerated partly due to this type of commercial corruption. He, with the "Donated" considerable time and efforts of John and Bill, have given us a place to continue on with our shared addiction. If any of the new/newer members took the time to go back and read and understand all this, you would find he did this with one aim and only one aim, INTEGRITY. Integrity, what a great concept, if you want to actually see it in practice,observe John Chapman's conduct RE: Goodwear, THAT is Integrity, Dignity and Class. I'll shut up here and apologize to Chris for any inaccuracies in my remembering's.
P.S. Platon, after reading what you have laid down these past few pages, other than finding your continuance on this course of yours incomprehensible, I have the sudden feeling I could actually blow smoke rings out of my ass.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Tom there's no continuance. The last pages were the ultimate effort to explain myself, solve the differences with the other friends, shake hands and move on. I hope this makes it comprehensible now. I said I apologize for busting the balls of the crowd here and will not repeat it (the busting not apologizing). Personally apologizing to you also for any of my misconduct. Thank you also for your feedback. I respect your opinion though not entirely agree with what you posted. A big thanks ot the moderators for their tolerance and everyhing.
