"Belle of the Brawl"

[YoungMedic]

Hello everyone,

Ive just found this site through the grapevine and what a great resource it has been in such a short time! Ive been looking to replicate a jacket I saw at the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the Smithsonian in 2009 "Belle of the Brawl". I have found most of what I need, however I am looking for a few details that I'm hoping maybe answered.

First question: Does anyone know who donated the jacket or to whom it belonged, I didn't get a picture of the name, as I didn't think about getting detailed photographs while I was there, and really haven't been able to track down the name.

Second question: I've only been able to track down one picture of the 18BS patch on the front of the jacket. Has anyone offhand seen anymore of this particular squadron patch ? If im going to have it duplicated I would like as details as possible. This picture was taken from a website selling the patch, who no longer posses it, so he could not provide additional pictures or dimensions.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[a2jacketpatches]

By the looks of it, it's about double the diameter of the SSI. And just eyeballing it on the chest of that jacket, I estimate 5.5 - 6 inches, definitely bigger than the average 5 inch Squadron Patch. I could do a hand embroidered patch that would look near identical and scary real, front and back, but it is very time consuming and would be expensive, around 250 - 300 bucks.

 

[unclegrumpy]

The 18th BS patch on this jacket is chenille....like a patch on a letterman's sweater. There are a few people that have reproduced chenille patches, but the outcome is not always very successful....meaning the results usually look like crap.

I would suggest going to a painted patch....next to nobody would ever know the difference....and there are several excellent artists on this forum that could do a masterful job for you.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

After a second look, it does look like the rough texture of chenille. Guess if I had a solid piece of chenille I could produce with outstanding results without question, but I was thinking more along the lines of heavy dark blue wool as a base. I'll have to find a supplier of chenille.

There's a bunch of very good painters here and I'm sure you'll find one to meet your talent and price needs. What maker jacket? If a high end Goodwear, Eastman, etc. You may want to consider having one embroidered. Recently, there was a thread that offered a link to a company that a great job and would do singles. But if doing this on a Cooper or something, I agree with unclegrumpy. It all depends on how accurate you want to be and I noticed you said as detailed as possible, and that "particular squadron patch"

 

[unclegrumpy]

After a second look, it does look like the rough texture of chenille. Guess if I had a solid piece of chenille I could produce with outstanding results without question, but I was thinking more along the lines of heavy dark blue wool as a base. I'll have to find a supplier of chenille.

You can get chenille at shop that makes custom patches for letterman's jackets...there are still a few around. However, from what I have seen, the modern material is not that close to what they used on squadron patches in the 1940's. The old stuff has a tight close nap and is 100% wool, and the colors have a different tone to them.

The patch on this jacket was originally made by the Akron Felt & Chenille Co. in Akron, Ohio. They are still in business, http://www.akronfelt.com/, but I have no idea what they might have laying around as far as old material or if they could still make these patches. It might be interesting to ask them.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I'll look into it. I did a little research at one point on an old Singer chenille machine, they are available from time to time on Ebay, however, making it work is a maybe at best. For instance, I have a machine now that'll reach right up a sleeve and stitch a patch on as opposed to wrestling with a jacket and patch to do the same job on a small household machine, but I can't make it work right. It'll take a while when I get the chance, but I'll have to work at it a while to figure it out.

 

[YoungMedic]

Thank you guys for the replies. The hunt continues, I have contacted some local embroidery shops, and with this info a chenille letterman patch maker to see what they think.

I hadn't looked closely at the one of the pictures, but with some zoom I was able to decipher the jacket belonged to 2 LT Russell S. Paulnock. He is listed and pictured with the aircraft on the 34 BG website.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Thank you guys for the replies. The hunt continues, I have contacted some local embroidery shops, and with this info a chenille letterman patch maker to see what they think.

Excellent work! Your level of obsessiveness is clearly in keeping with VLJ standards....welcome aboard.

PS: I'll see about getting you the exact dimensions of one of these patches....a2jacketpatches is correct, they are slightly oversized.

 

[YoungMedic]

yeah, once I get into something, I get a belly full that's for sure. The best I can estimate is between 5.5 and 6 inches. I have already heard back from the chenille maker. He has done repro's before and the examples he sent me looked pretty nice. With the one picture I have its hard to tell if the embroidery sits up over the pile or if its worn down over time. Pricing seems fair, but a min of 6 orders. I'm not sure if its against the rules, but do you think there would be any interest in buying the leftovers?

 

[unclegrumpy]

Its hard to tell if the embroidery sits up over the pile or if its worn down over time.

The embroidery on these patches is into the pile. Meaning, they take a chenille disc and embroider on top of it.

I would say you hit a home run on finding the right guy....depending on the cost. Both the 532nd BS and 535th BS look very very close to the originals, and are made just like an 18th BS is. I have had originals of all three of these patches, and my only comment is I cannot remember the 532nd BS having the black border.

There would not be a problem selling the extras on the Forum. I think there would be interest if the price was fair. Heck, I might like one.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Those do look very good, any idea what the chenille fabric is made of, and the embroidery thread as well? I'm all about period correct materials, especially if going on a high end jacket.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Looks like there's countless companies out there, all roughly the same pricing, and I found some using 100% wool.

 

[YoungMedic]

I think I read somewhere that these were wool but not 100% certain. I'll be sure to ask. As soon as I can get an idea on dimension I think I'm going to pull the trigger, your insight and suggestions make me feel better about it.

As for "authenticity", This being my first jacket, and I may be building a house in the next 6 months, this will be a "budget build". I had not even looked at Goodwear or Eastwood, and boy those are really nice, maybe Ill get the itch to do another one down the road.

Ill keep you all posted

 

[bseal]

Yes, Eastwood is awesome.

 

[Jeff M]

I think I read somewhere that these were wool but not 100% certain. I'll be sure to ask. As soon as I can get an idea on dimension I think I'm going to pull the trigger, your insight and suggestions make me feel better about it.

As for "authenticity", This being my first jacket, and I may be building a house in the next 6 months, this will be a "budget build". I had not even looked at Goodwear or Eastwood, and boy those are really nice, maybe Ill get the itch to do another one down the road.

Ill keep you all posted

Both Good Wear and Eastman make wonderful jackets.
I lean towards Good Wear for their stitch by stitch design authenticity, multiple different contract offerings, leather options, custom fit.
John Chapman (Good Wear) makes his jackets to your measurements. Eastman sells "standard" sizes, ie, 38", 40", 42" etc.
Eastman will do custom sizing, but will not accept a custom sized jacket back in return. This can be an issue...as even the best jacket manufacturers are at the mercy of the measurements sent to them, and it is not uncommon for a custom made jacket to not fit well and need to be re-done/need adjustments.

 

[Vcruiser]

I thought it was Goodwood and Eastwear...isn't it.... :?

 

[unclegrumpy]

Here is a shot of an original 532nd BS patch:

 

[YoungMedic]

Phase II of the jacket is now complete. Phase 1 was to acquire an A2.. check.. Got my patches made. check.. Overall I think they came out pretty darn nice. I believe the word I have read here is "chuffed" :mrgreen: I will be selling the leftovers of the min. order if anyone is interested. A large debt of gratis to Unclegrumpy for all of his help thus far

18 BS 34 BG

 

[YoungMedic]

Another guy who helped me out was Kenny over at http://www.bullfrogvalleymilitaria.com/ ... cfm?SID=37

His site was where I found the only picture of the patch, and he didn't have it anymore, but then he emails me out of the blue months later saying he got another one in a set belonging to the fellow pictured below and shared some info with me... good guy.

 

[Anonymous]

If the jacket is a 38 the patch may be 5.25 just looking larger on a small jacket.