AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics

Discussion in 'Repros' started by Brettafett, May 7, 2018.

  1. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    1,483
    Location:
    Norway
    So no price rises between 1999 and 2007 and then a 93% hike from 2007 and 2017 eh?

    If that annoys you, don't blame me, it's you lot who set the pricing, I've merely highlighted the increase over this period. You guys nearly doubled the price of this jacket over a decade, actually less than a decade because the price was still £300 in 2008.

    It's hardly surprising that some are interested in what appears to be emerging more affordable and prudently priced reproductions.
     
    jeremiah likes this.
  2. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    422
    I'm neither annoyed, nor blaming you Smithy
    With hindsight we'd have been far better off increasing the price £15 per year between 2000 and 2018. It would still be £580 today
    By 2008 £300 was totally uneconomical, and ditto £350 in 2010, I doubt if we got the price right until fairly recently

    I've got no beef whatsoever with competition but it would be nice to be playing on a level playing field, even if that was only in regard to transparity, honesty and clarity, never mind staff wages and working conditions

    And please bear in mind Militaria is only a very small part of Aero's production, perhaps we did take our eye off the financial ball every now and then
     
    Pilot likes this.
  3. Geeboo

    Geeboo Member

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    #42, I think militaria is the major of yours production! What is then the major part of your production ?
     
  4. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

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    3,385
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    Take a look at the Aero website, Geeboo. Most of the jackets listed are civilian styles and ‘20s-‘50s inspired workwear. If you visit Fedora Lounge, these make up the bulk of the Aero jackets/garments posted on the site.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  5. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    422
    Dr H is correct, numerically Military jackets represent around 10% to 12% of our annual output, this has been pretty consistent since the mid 1980s. The Type A-2 (our best selling military jacket) is not amongst our top 10 best selling jackets.
     
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  6. Brettafett

    Brettafett Active Member

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    121
    Location:
    LONDON
    Morning all... I don't want to get into this 'nonsense' with people, seen this before, and it doesn't go down well with anyone... but this does sound like a bit of a 'poke' at the new guy on the block, cause they are offering something highly competitive... This thread was simply a personal review of a really good jacket, and a really good 'original maker' option at a very affordable price, in my humble opinion (25 plus top tier repros, incl a few Aeros)...
    but I have to ask... Ken, who's playing field? Yours? UK, EU, US jackets for example will always cost more, due to your expenses; importing materials, local labour... etc. Your jackets may be worth every penny, as are all ELCs, BKs, GWs jackets etc... But they are pricey!
    You will always have your die hard loyal customers, but some of us are open minded about other makers also.

    But just because someone has embarked on a venture producing decent quality jackets, 'not in England, Denmark, the US or some other first world country', and has not expressly provided a paragraph about manufacture on their website... Likely an oversight... does NOT automatically mean they are dishonest, opaque or exploiting anyone.... and insinuating or speculating that they 'may be' etc... is not fair to the vendor, who clearly has no presence here and probably does not have much of an interest to get involved in this nonsense anyway....!
    (I can imagine a Dane, scratching his head and wondering why anyone would think they were being dishonest or unclear, likely feeling a little embarrassed about it all and making a plan to communicate things more effectively).

    I will ask again, if you are sceptical about anything, contact the vendor directly and ask them. Post the response here by all means, but don't 'dig' at your competition or stir peoples imaginations... Its bad form.
    Why not call AVI yourself Ken and offer some words of advice from all your years of success? Perhaps help them fine-tune their jackets... Maybe even offer to stock some of their jackets, as a budget A-2 to compliment your top tier A-2s? (As you have done with Pike..). Or get them to produce a 'budget' goatskin specific WW2 contract A-2 exclusive to Aeroleather... like a budget Aero contract perhaps? Everyone wins.

    Anyway, I have sent AVI an email, (unfortunate in my opinion, asking them to address these 'issues' some of you are having, because they have neglected to anticipate how important having a 'made in' label and a paragraph about' best practice at source of manufacture' etc... on their website, for those who would love to find a way to explain the low cost of these jackets in comparison to the 'big boys'.
    Maybe bringing these things to point will end up being a good thing... If AVI puts a 'made in' tag in future jackets, a 'best code of practice' paragraph on the website, no poisonous chemicals harming any children, organic free-range goat and cotton, no lead or aluminium etc.. etc... Then there will be nothing left to say but, "ok, nice jacket".

    It was bound to happen one day, that someone would see the relatively decent quality jackets coming out of say, Pakistan (and you'll find these all over London!) or China or wherever (made by talented artisans, very happy to have a job and proud of their skills) and ask, "what if they we gave them an original WW2 A-2 to copy the pattern and details, source some decent repro components, send to them and then make a jacket for us to sell to the world at manageable price". A great idea and a healthy step forward imo. Kudos to AVI!

    Competition benefits all of us, especially us consumers and 'jacket fans' who are struggling to justify £6/7/800+ on a jacket (that said, I have two top tier jackets on the way and will take pics and review in the hope that people won't use those threads as an opportunity to 'maker-bash' or speculate on involvement in the horrors of the world).

    I'd love to see who will be wearing who's jackets in 10 years time, when the top tier makers have all had to send production to Pakistan, India or GW to Mexico (!) because its just way to expensive to produce in the UK, EU or US anymore... They way things are going economically...

    I can buy and 'review' any jacket made by any maker I fancy... And my reviews with the attached pics are intended to be helpful, informative, and fun... I know I love seeing pics of other people's jackets and I've learned so much on these forums over the years... If you have any legitimate issues, please take them up with the vendor and then by all means let us know what they say. If/ when I receive a response, I will let you all know... and I hope its a cracker and alleviates any genuine concerns.
     
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  7. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Norway
    That might be so but it's hardly surprising that customers who are used to the 2007 price would be shocked and dismayed at how quickly the price shot up and in such a short space of time. And also that their ideas of perceived value of the product would be adversely affected. Niche market pricing is less sensitive than that in large scale markets but even niche markets can and will be affected by very aggressive price increases, eventually you start to alienate parts of your existing customer base because what you charge doesn't line up with what they perceive the value of what they are buying anymore. And that's when these customers start looking for more cost effective alternatives. You can't blame them, that's basic human psychology and economics.
     
    Pilot likes this.
  8. nkang

    nkang Member

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    81
    Guys, I think the discussion about pricing and transparency should deserve its own thread now. The more discussion, the better indeed.

    Wherever on the spectrum we stand, however, let's not forget this friendly thread is an AVI review thread by Brett, who just recently decides to devote time to both TFL and VLJ. I personally want to apologize for contributing to the deviation of the thread's topic and would like to tell Brett that I highly appreciate all the reviews he has posted on both forums.
     
    Pilot likes this.
  9. Brettafett

    Brettafett Active Member

    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    LONDON
  10. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    422
    What I mean by level playing field is two fold
    1.Fair Wages & Working Conditions
    2.Disclosure

    This is from Whitcomb & Shaftsbury of Savile Row
    http://www.whitcombandshaftesbury.com/brand/classic_suits.html

    "The Classic Bespoke aims to offer a completely hand made bespoke suit at a lower cost.
    To ensure this unique goal, we have setup a unique workshop in India, where handpicked craftsmen from our rehabilitation program are trained to the exacting standards found in Savile Row."


    as opposed to

    " AVI LTHR based in Aarhus, Denmark, are the creators of high quality and authentic leather flight jackets. With roots in proud Scandinavian design traditions and craftsmanship, AVI LTHR’s mission is to bring great leather flight jackets, filled with craftsmanship, nostalgia and authenticity, to you in a true way "
     
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  11. Ole

    Ole Member

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    67
    A jacket from Pakistan costs like eur 35 and they sell it eur 380, i.e. 10 times up. Even though you buy it cheap that's called profiteering in my book.
    Ken doesn't sell his 10 times up. The leathers only should cost him around eur 200.
    I 'd be better buying Ken's for £580 considering that it cost him about half and support Ken than from someone who made x10 his cost as profit.
    Don't forget also that with so low prices AVI may sell 10 jackets for every 1 Ken can sell.
    So, at the same time they can make eur 3450 while Ken only about half of £580.
    I 'd better support Ken and the others in Europe who may be more expensive due to their higher costs but their trade is more honest than cost x10.
     
    Pilot likes this.
  12. nkang

    nkang Member

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    81
    I've also emailed AVI with some suggestions on transparency of provenance and sustainability. Hopefully Morten will have the time to reply us!
     
    Pilot likes this.
  13. Skyhawk

    Skyhawk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Hmm..... I have dealt with leather makers in India and Pakistan. Never got a price like that for custom work. I guess that could happen if you get a cookie cutter jacket that was already designed.

    You have to consider making the pattern, shipping the specialty parts to the maker, and finding a maker that will actually follow your directions. On top of that, they have to be very good at making jackets. They also have to be able to adapt and make changes based on your feedback, and then execute the jackets flawlessly.

    Not all shops in India and Pakistan are horrible sweat shops. Those types of factories could not consistently execute quality reproductions. There are great leather makers in both countries. But rest assured, you will pay for expertise there just like anywhere in the world.

    I don't believe that they are getting jackets made for under $40 like you suggest. Also consider that they did a purchase of Talon Zippers. Talon has a minimum order of 10,000 pieces for making vintage style zippers. They also outsource, by the way, and it probably aint to the USA. So consider even a $5 per piece order with Talon. That's $50,000.

    Also food for thought. All those cool reproduction Talon zippers on all those fancy repros, are all probably made in 3rd world countries. Just can't get away from it can you?
     
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  14. Thomas Koehle

    Thomas Koehle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    Mexico Aguascalientes
    THX Brett for sharing your experience with those jackets!

    I was really interested to see about the fit and quality of the garment.

    For me they do not look that bad.

    THX also for sharing the fitpics.

    Saludos from Mexico

    Thomas
     
  15. Skip

    Skip Well-Known Member

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    1,092
    Location:
    Great Southern Land
    Well Said Brett on that post!
     
  16. Southoftheborder

    Southoftheborder New Member

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    12
    Actually don't you get your jackets made in Pakistan? If not now I think you did once. I've got one of yours I bought a few years ago and it seems well made. I think I asked you where you had them manufactured at the time but I'm not sure you answered.

    AVI were selling their jackets on eBay a couple of years ago and I asked them a few questions then including where they were made. No answer to the latter.

    But as I read this thread I wondered why other companies who also manufacture abroad in lower income countries weren't being questioned about their practices as well? Even Aero made jackets in India at one time...

    Incidentally I just joined this forum though I have read it occasionally over the years. So hello.
     
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  17. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    422
    Over the years Aero have had jackets made in both Canada and India, both "foreign made" jackets we clearly marked and clearly marketed as "Made in India" or "Made in Canada" along with the reasons for having jackets made outside Scotland. The both the Canadian factory and the Indian factory were visited prior to placing the orders and supervised throughout the production.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  18. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    Anyone asking where they are made got an answer?
    Not yet for me...
     
  19. nkang

    nkang Member

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    81
    No answer yet.
     
    Pilot likes this.
  20. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    One wonders why...
     

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