AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics

Discussion in 'Repros' started by Brettafett, May 7, 2018.

  1. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing against people being concerned about working conditions, child labour, etc when it comes to what they purchase. What I find hypocritical is when they act all incensed about this with one form of product (in this case a leather jacket) and yet couldn't give a damn or are completely unaware that their own houses and the things they use, are surrounded by on an everyday basis are made in these kinds of conditions.

    The real fact of the matter is that if we look at A-2 jackets - as this is what this thread and discussion is about - they have risen in price over the last decade, far out-stripping inflation, wage increases and at a rate which is quite frankly ridiculous. I posted some figures last December in this thread to show this:

    http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/how-much-do-you-spent.20343/

    Here's some comparable pricing that I posted in there which might raise an eyebrow (the period in question is the rise in retail price for these jackets from 2007 to 2017):

    "An ELC house HH A-2 has in that period has gone from 387 quid to 750 which is a 94% increase. And not to pick on ELC but show this is across the board, an Aero Real Deal A-2 has gone from 300 quid to 580 so a 93% increase. Now it might just be me but I'd put good money on most peoples salaries not increasing by 83 to 94% over the last decade."

    If you hang around here a bit you'll find that there's quite a few of us old hands for whom the perceived value of an A-2 from the perceived premier makers is now completely out of kilter to what you pay. I'm one of those who can afford an A-2 from the big boys but there's no bloody way I'm paying what they're asking because to my mind now it's highway robbery.

    And therein is the reason why a crowd selling a decent A-2 for 350-400 euro is attractive, the price asked is on par with the perceived value of what you get. The exceedingly aggressive price increases of the high end companies was always going to lead to this. They'll no doubt jump up and down and dispute that but when you double your price in a 10 year period that's bound to happen.
     
  2. CBI

    CBI Well-Known Member

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    3,731
    I often wonder if most members of VLJ aren't really old ladies ...............all of the bickering. Bitching that jackets are too expensive. Now an issue because some are too cheap. The ones in the middle don't quite have all the details.

    GEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ.........................
     
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  3. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    That's simply rot, I had to stop my knitting just to type this and bugger it if I haven't dropped a stitch.
     
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  4. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    All over some valid points...two questions:
    -question one is: if one knows its an “ evil “ ( definition of evil listed before# child labor, toxic, not traceable country etc...) product...shall we still buy it because “it fits” ,” its comfy to wear “ and its “ cheap”...last but not least because , one wants to boycott the “ top priced brands”...?
    -question two is : if all good with this danish brand...why no indication where its made...? ( will find out anyway sooner or later..)...Maybe all OK and good...but so far...uncertain.
    Everyone has his answer and his conscience.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  5. MikeyB-17

    MikeyB-17 Well-Known Member

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    1,899
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    Well I never did, I said to Doris down the road, I said £700 for an A-2, I said that’s daylight robbery that is, I said that’s nearly a million pounds in old money, I said in my day we could buy an A-2, a B-3, a B-2 cap, a crusher cap and three pairs of service shoes, go and see George Formby at the Palladium, buy three bags of monkey nuts, have a fish and chip supper and ten pints of best on the way home and still have change from a farthing. I said to that Mr. Eastwood I said young man you ought to be ashamed of yourself selling A-2’s at those prices, people got mouths to feed, I said the country is going to the dogs, she said you didn’t I said I did....
     
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  6. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Member

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    Interesting topic raised here, reminds me of a conversation I had with some vegan friends of mine. They don't eat any products related to animals to protest the way humanity abuses them. They don't eat meat, honey, drink milk, etc...they probably wouldn't even wear a leather jacket. But they told me that vegans can be way more "hardcore" than them: Some of them don't take the highway, because the faster they drive, the more insects they hit. One can go crazy if they really get into this: after all, everything around us is damaging the environment in one way or the other. The truck that delivers their tofu emits a lot of CO2 and has probably hit zillions of insects on its way.

    Now how does it translate to jackets? I'm against child labor just like abusing animals. This being said though, there is absolutely no way I could dress up without using a single item made in a 3rd world country. OK, let's say I buy an ELC instead. But what about my jeans, socks, T-shirt, underwear? My phone? So there are a lot of problems in this world, and spending 900 GBP on a jacket rather than 300 is the worst bang for the buck if we look at the cost-making the world a better place ratio.

    Especially if you're not on a Western European salary. An ELC A-2 costs 900 GBP for everyone, but some earn 3 grands, some earn just one, and some even less. I spent a full month's salary on my A-2. It was crazy, but I thought of it as a lifetime investment.

    Another good point was raised by Smithy, and it's related to what I said above: some of these prices got way out of hand. You can't expect everyone to swallow 94% increases and not even look at cheaper alternatives, and then make it all a moral question.
     
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  7. nkang

    nkang Member

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    @Smithy Good points! I'm with you that the premier makers charge a hefty price... To me, there's even more reason why AVI should show some provenance and interaction with us? That way even the doubters will be prone to buy a few, pushing it to be the bestselling low- to mid-range brand ;)
     
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  8. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely 1000% with you!
     
  9. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    Norway
    Without doubt the funniest post on here in an age!

    But I've bloody gone and slopped my tea all over the table because of it.
     
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  10. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    Hi Greg,
    We are all with you and most of your words are 100% right and spot on...
    Its not against low cost in general..Its not against “can afford or cannot afford...” its against “hiding something” which is prone to a lot of speculations....and since absolute silence from Denmark...it smells very fishy...regarding the labor and provenance issues.
    A lot of us buy “ fair trade goods” also made in low cost emerging countries...I am sure about this...and I do...
    Again, considering these given jacket prices, considering the total world maket costs of the hardware ( “toxic, unethical “ leather, liner, metalware, knits etc...) , it leaves very very very little for labor...for the workers...machinists for the local people...etc...hence all this discussions ...It was in no way meant to be a discussion about purchasing power. Apologies if it went in this direction.
     
  11. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Member

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    52
    Ah I see, sorry if I misunderstood. In that case, I think it's simply bad PR from their side. They really should reveal whatever the truth is, then everyone could make their own personal decisions.
     
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  12. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    Spot on Greg!!!, Fair trade goods...also out of these Regions...do as well...and we love them precisely for that reason.
     
  13. Brettafett

    Brettafett Active Member

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    Location:
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    Guys... I have popped online and come back to this thread and to be honest, I am a little taken aback.
    @Pilot... no offence mate, but you are making out like this is an AVI conspiracy... Please.... AVI, like some and unlike some others companies, do not spend their days reading these forums and pouring over the comments... so, are likely not aware that people are taking a pick at something, and thus have not responded to defend themselves.
    I highly doubt they are 'hiding' anything.
    Email them directly and ask about your concerns and by all means let us know what they say. I have emailed them and also asked them to add something about country of manufacture on their website.
    I am pretty sure these jackets are made in Pakistan, (who incidentally have a reputation of making decent leather jackets by skilled and proud artisans) so are a zillion other high street products and I'm sure all this is done in a humane way, not to mention putting the food on many tables.
    If you know anything about the Danish, and I do, as I lived there for a while, they re not the people who would likely be involved in any questionable business practices. If anything, the Danes are open-mided, altruistic, intelligent types, who would set up a business in a third world country, go in and train the team in order to help the industry and people there.

    This thread was simply an honest review of an A-2 jacket/s that I received and am very happy with, for the benefit of the folk who are interested in these things. I will continue to post pics and reviews of my jackets, and I would respectfully ask for constructive feedback and comments, not speculation and witch-hunts.
    The above discussion about possible inhumane production practices, is a rabbit hole and not fair to associate with this or any manufacturer.
    I would ask you to start a new thread if you want to venture further down there. Thank you.
     
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  14. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    Hi,
    thx for chiming in...surely no conspiracy...just wondering..
    Contacted them...no answer yet...Why not mentioning Pakistan on a label...especialy since Pakistan is a famous leather jacket supplying country.
    ...Pakistan, ...OK, maybe we can have more details or even have a factory tour. We have agencies in most of the big cities in Pakistan...I am in Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad in Sept.2018...happy to meet them...if they allow this.
    Again, thx for your feedback and no harm done as long as all good...
    Cheers
     
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  15. Brettafett

    Brettafett Active Member

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    121
    Location:
    LONDON
    Thanks @Pilot...
    As I said, I have emailed them also and will let you all know what they say.
    My guess is that this was not something they initially considered would be brought into question, that label on the inside is a 'generic label' and I can imagine having another bespoke one created will again cost more money.
    I'm sure they have been focused on making the best Bronco-copy they can, with the correct detailing and components... And the 'care/ made in' label is simply a standard label added by the team who actually make the jackets... And all the other jackets they likely make there.
    Now that AVI are being made aware of this, I'm sure they will look into it and we will get a response soon.
     
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  16. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

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    663
    Thx for that...
    Lets wait and see..
    PS: the label story... hhhmmm
     
  17. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    Just came in after a day out in the rain

    OK What am I wearing and where was it made?

    Jacket : Made in Scotland ..obviously....from English Leather, lined in Cotton woven in Manchester, old Conmar (USA) zipper
    Sweater : Knitted in Scotland from Scottish Wool
    Shirt : Made in Britain, vintage 1940s
    T-Shirt : Made in USA (Goodwear) from American Cotton
    Budgie Smugglers : Made in Portugal (M&S)
    Trousers : Made in England using British Woven Corduroy
    Socks : Made in England using Shetland Wool and Cotton (No idea where the cotton comes from)
    Boots : Made in England using USA Tanned Leather

    My Stereo is Scottish (Linn) Sorry about the old Japanese Telly but I've had if for best part of 30 years......etc etc...but blow me down, wasn't it invented by a Scotsman?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  18. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

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    422
    An Aero Real Deal started out late 1999 / early 2000 at £300
    83% rise over two decades (Not one).............still not great but how much today for the 1999, £300,000 House in Londonistan?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  19. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

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    1,483
    Location:
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    Not according to the price on the Aero website on the 7th August 2007 where a Real Deal is priced at £300. In August 2017 it was (and still is) £580.

    So from August 2007 to August 2017 the increase in price was £280 which is an increase of 93% over a 10 year period.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    422
    Smithy

    15 all

    We didn't raise the price a single penny during the first 8 years of production at the very least, Zero % I've checked the current website (goes back to 2010) which shows they were £350 in 2010, perhaps we should have incresead the price more regularily in smaller increments between 2000 and 2010

    15 - 30 your serve
     

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