AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics

Discussion in 'Repros' started by Brettafett, May 7, 2018.

  1. ties70

    ties70 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Hamburg / Germany
    Guys,

    spending so much time and posts on this thread actually shows this (at least for me):

    1. If you post something, you should be able to accept that others here have a different opinion.

    2. We should not see this different opinion as a personal attack.

    3. If it was meant as a personal attack or sounds like one, we should not be surprised that the other side "bites back".

    4. BUT: This forum is much more civilized than it was years ago. We filled 14 pages of thread without personal insults, no one demanded others to be expelled ....that was different some (long) time ago, when member's "right" even to join a discussion was disputed by others. I remember when one member criticized me and thought I was a newbie and not even entitled to have an opinion, not to mention a different one.

    This said, I think we really had a grown-up discussion here in the last days....Way to go, VLJ!

    Ties
     
  2. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,606
    Location:
    Somerset, UK
    [​IMG]

    Personally, the cut of the authentic A-1 on the right isn't the best either - look at the tautness of that cape around the chest/collar/first button...
     
    Brettafett and Persimmon like this.
  3. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    Well said Ties, I recall a time fairly recently when the only posts on VLJ were ones asking why there were no posts or one's berating any newbie.
    As a teenage I loved Speakers Corner on a Sunday
     
    ausreenactor likes this.
  4. Thomas Koehle

    Thomas Koehle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    652
    Location:
    Mexico Aguascalientes
    Well said!
     
    Ken at Aero Leather likes this.
  5. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    Hello fellow flight jacket enthusiasts,
    If you’re bored with this thread, don’t blame you… move on.
    This is for those that are interested in AVI’s position on the above, and some hints on whats to come.
    (Please gents, this is not intended as an invitation to throw more accusations or imagined speculations about fluff.)
    Grab a coffee/ tea/ A-2.

    So. I’ve been corresponding with AVI last week and this week (and Five Star Leathers) and wanted pass on some info. The below are my words, based on my understandings and I’m only posting this because I felt a touch of responsibility, being the OP.

    AVI is not interested in getting involved in these discussions or debates. They have no presence on these lounges, except when guys post pics and reviews of their jackets.
    They would prefer to focus on what they are doing, and let their jackets speak for themselves.
    They understand that many on these forums are passionate guys, just wanting to share their interest in these things and everyone has a perspective.
    Not everyone is as detailed-orientated as some of us here on the Lounges, so our feedback is welcome.
    They are passionate about what they are doing and are constantly looking for ways to improve (valid, constructive feedback is always appreciated, pls email them directly).
    Their mission is, and has always been, too make the best original-maker flight jackets they can, while still keeping them reasonably priced.

    They are Denmark-based, jackets are manufactured in Pakistan, sent back to Denmark for distribution.
    Manufacturer has been around quite some time and supplies many business around the world, incl AVI LTHR and Five Star Leathers… to name only a few…
    They don’t sell to the public.
    Five Star Leathers is a customer of this manufacturer, not a part of it.

    AVI LTHR obtained an original Bronco A-2 and 55J14 G-1, and proceeded to study them and the patterns/ details etc… Then sourced the best hardware and components they could get, sent these to manufacturer in Pakistan.
    The manufacturer then made test jackets to approve, before the actual production jackets.
    These patterns ‘somehow’ then found their way onto the manufacturer’s ‘catalogue’ and made available to other companies, even though AVI had written agreements with them.
    So, some G-1 and Bronco-like jackets may be found elsewhere, (probably not for long), but these will not have the same leather, specially produced spec label, CARR snaps, throat hooks, stamps, single ply knit and M-39 Talon Zipper as AVI’s Bronco (at least they should not have)…
    AVI was not aware of this, until a couple of us made them aware of it, by emailing them to ask about all this last week. (So, some good has come from this thread).
    They are taking this very seriously.
    AVI actually purchased the M-39 zippers specially for use with their jackets. Some of these have also ‘found’ their way onto other jackets, incl the G-1 Ken procured. (nice!)
    In fact, that G-1, is an update-in-progress jacket of AVI’s where they are upgrading the zipper and also the knit, to authentic single ply rib-rack (this has not yet arrived, so this updated G-1 is still in process and will be available only later this year).
    So, manufacturer sent Ken a spec jacket and used the seamless seal knit used on the current AVI Seal Bronco, (and likely with one of AVI’s Talon zips also).
    This is not a jacket that should be available through Five Star leathers or any other online retailer.
    Although no-one owns rights to producing an G-1 or A-2 repro, or using Talon zippers, repro mouton etc... its seems all AVI's hard work and investment has been passed on nimbly-nimbly, by the manufacturer to other jacket retailers, most of whom wouldn't know a G-1 55J14 from a 'bomber', or a Bronco from a camel (in fact FSL refers to the zippers as brass or silver ;) ... they don't know about 'seamed' cuffs, only that they are good quality).
    AVI and manufacturer are in process of resolving these ‘issues’… (I'm sure they are!... super sigh!)

    AVI is taking it all in stride.
    They have sourced another goatskin supplier, both seal and russet, closely matched with their original Bronco and original Perry A-2, which they recon will be used in future jackets.
    In fact, they are looking at a veg tanned goatskin with an aniline finish, they seem very excited about (will this be in both seal and russet, will the Bronco be updated in this also or just for the Perry, I'm not sure...)
    They do not plan on making horsehide jackets.
    They have also sourced more authentic single ply knits for future jackets...
    They are very serious about the quality of their jackets and customer satisfaction, and say their jackets will be improved upon, as an when they source better leather and hardware, etc.
    They are also sourcing a possible new manufacturer (not surprised…).
    Danish law requires their jackets to have 'care labels' inside, but not required to have 'made in' labels. They are looking into this, and may incl such labels in future jackets, but are also aware originals did not have such labels... They may incl labels that can be removed/ cut out etc...

    They have acquired an original WW2 Perry A-2 and this is progressing very well. They really want this one to go out as close to the original as possible. To the extent, they are even looking at the correct period CARR snaps that are found on said WW2 Perry! This jacket will be the next A-2 release, available in both the updated russet and seal goatskin (assume the new veg tanned anilin goat...).
    Still a few months out is my understanding.
    There were hints of a couple more jackets, but didn’t get any more info, except that they were hoping to get these ready for the winter season! (what could these be!!!!?)

    Again, I stand by the quality and detailing of my jackets. They may not be 100% accurate (at the mo), but they are not too far off, in fact they are great!!! They certainly look and fit right. Not to mention (again) waaayyy below the cost of many high-end jackets.
    The fact that many of us are even critiquing and comparing them to originals, Goodwears and Eastmans etc is high praise already, although these jackets are not (yet) in the same league.
    No one else is seriously trying to make quality original-maker jackets, of reasonable authenticity, at an affordable price.
    AVI seems dedicated to doing so.
    All the 'feedback' will only help them make better jackets, which is a good thing. We all win at the end of the day.
    If you are curious or interested in one of their jackets, try one. If not, don’t. Easy.
    If you have any queries or concerns, please don't assume, speculate or accuse... contact the company directly and then let us know the feedback.

    I have already requested a Perry. Seal or Russet? I know originals came in both, although russet is more common.
    Dunno, may try both… keep the one I prefer.
    Thats all folks. Moving on from this....
     
    Skip, falcon_ib, Steve27752 and 3 others like this.
  6. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

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    3,606
    Location:
    Somerset, UK
    I'm no longer looking to buy flying jackets really at this stage, but I still have a soft spot for the Perry pattern and I'll be very interested to see how this one turns out.
     
  7. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    493
    AVI is on an amazing journey that all of us can benefit from. Looking forward to what else they have up their sleeves! I'm secretly hoping for sheepskin jackets such as a B-3 or an Irvin...
     
    Brettafett likes this.
  8. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    Norway
    I've told Morten that I want to order a Perry too.
     
  9. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    yes. I hope attention is paid to the unique collar (although not too rounded) and pocket profiles... That will make it or break it for me over correct snaps...
    For me, the pattern (so correct drape and fit) and leather and prime factors.
     
  10. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    We should make a poll... What jacket will AVI launch for winter ;)
    I am hoping for an M422a... They already have the G-1, should be able to take those 'tricks' and apply to an M422a. B-3 would be different. B-10? B-15?
     
  11. nkang

    nkang Active Member

    Messages:
    171
    Can anyone shed some light on what is so special of the Perry pattern? Thanks!
     
  12. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    John has a pretty good description on his site. No one else makes a Perry repro besides John (GW), (though Aeroleather make a 1756, which I understand to have been made by Perry)...
    As for appearances, they have a unique collar profile, with collar stand, often with bluntish tips. Also had rather rounded scalloped pocket flap profile.
    I'm pleased AVI is doing something different and not another Roughwear (although its one of the best looking A-2s imo, there are many repros of it)...
     
    nkang likes this.
  13. Smithy

    Smithy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,252
    Location:
    Norway
    A B-3 would be fun to see if they can source some really nice looking and robust sheepskin.

    Hopefully Morten picks up a few more original A-2s as I'd also like to see a Doniger and a Dubow. Doniger would make sense seeing as they apparently only used goatskin.
     
  14. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    B-3 or a D-1... Theres a Doniger 42 on GW's sale page. Looks amazing.
    I'd love to see another Monarch, or even a 1756... but these are not a patterns that will suit everyone. Dubows always welcome ;)
     
  15. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    We've rung out the facts
    wring.jpg
    how about the 500% mark up?
     
  16. Greg Gale

    Greg Gale Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    493
    500% or not, the what you pay for vs what you get ratio is still pretty darn good IMO ;)
     
    Smithy likes this.
  17. Brettafett

    Brettafett Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    LONDON
    I'm not an economist, neither do I run a manufacturing business. Neither do I want too. Just want a cool flight jacket ;)
    But let me take a simplistic, idealistic and clearly ingnoramic gander...
    Take your std FSL 'Bronco' (assuming lining and stamps are the same) - Add a different goatskin from stock skins, add correctly sourced single ply knits, sourced CARR snaps, throat hooks etc, a specially created and made up Bronco label and a specially procured M-39 talon zipper.
    Add those costs to said jacket, then return postage to Denmark. Add import duties and taxes and whatevers - from where they no doubt get checked and then sent out to customers.
    Add costs associated with running a premises, staff and website in Denmark.
    Anyway, they are making a product I like at a price I can afford.
    That, and in Scotland a cup of coffee costs £2.60. In Denmark the same cup of coffee will set you back £4.
    Dunno. Its a fun game though....
     
    Smithy likes this.
  18. Dr H

    Dr H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,606
    Location:
    Somerset, UK
    Personally, I'd differentiate the 1756 no name (Perry) from the 23377 (goat) and 16175-P (horsehide) contracts as the late war 1756 looks like such a rushed contract (all the images that I have seen look roughly constructed and less well cut).
    It's a comfortable contract to wear, without being too blousy. I particularly like the smaller, rounded collar tips, the deeply scalloped pocket flaps and the relatively narrow sleeve profile.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    How much is it in Pakistan?

    Take a moment to look at this happy bunch
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/エアロレザーク...8/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1355131661220918
    They are all on well over a UK living wage, would they look so happy on the wages AVI's workers must be getting paid

    And Smithy is critisising Aero and ELC for our prices......tut tut
     
    nkang likes this.
  20. Ken at Aero Leather

    Ken at Aero Leather Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    and pretty darn good for the retailer
     

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