Discussion in 'Reproduction manufacturers' started by Skyhawk, Oct 26, 2016.
Or it could be piss ?.
Cat amongst the pigeons time.....................
This week I've been at the factory helping Sam and Christine finalise our latest sample (almost spot on now)
We've thought for some time that Amelia's jacket was probably not made by a leather manufacturer but rather by a cloth manufacturer making a jacket in leather using cloth patterns and cloth tailoring techniques.
We came across this same mix of pattern/tailoring while working on the launch of a range of leather jackets for the launch of Levi Vintage. Every Levi Leather jacket I've ever handled (Dozens if not hundreds) were all made as if the material used was cloth. These same anomolies appear in the Earhart jacket and in the White 99 cloth jacket from what we can see in the photo and from what we can work out from other clues in the make up.
Bottom line, I think her jacket was far more likely made by whoever made the 99 jacket rather than by Air Associates, Spalding or any other leather jacket maker
I AGREE WITH YOU KEN !. The jacket for such a famous person did not seem to be worn by anyone else .To me this means its a one off jacket ,as I said before the lady had access to have the jacket made by her contacts of her clothing label of 1933 . I mean who would turn down such an opportunity to have your handiwork on the back of one of the most famous ladies of the time . Secondly she wanted to look like a lady while flying not like a lady flyer in men's small flight clothing , she was promoting the acceptance of ladies flying aircraft .We already know she designed a jacket for the 99s , why was that not done by one of companies making flight and expedition clothing .
Interesting. What Anomalies are you speaking about that make the leather jacket in the photos look like cloth techniques were used? As far as I can see, it appear to have similar construction of an A-1 / A-2. IE leather jacket type construction. Even down to the rolled seams.
I don't think Spalding or AAI can be ruled out as the possible manufacturer. Both companies could have easily contracted a one off for her. Spalding made ladies leather flight jackets at the time. And AAI Used similar materials and styles.
So why would she go to a cloth manufacturer to make a leather flight jacket when there were companies making them in leather already? What would you do? Would you contract a quality leather jacket with a cloth company that doesn't make them? Or would you go with an experienced leather maker that has a reputation and the process worked out to make great leather flight jackets?
She was already getting gear from Air Associates, even leather helmets. It makes a lot of since to me that she would go to them to make her jacket. It would not be hard to make a ladies pattern for a contracted jacket.
Obviously she probably contracted the jacket because we have not seen another so far. We are all in agreement about this. But to deny the evidence that supports the probability of her contracting from a company that she dealt with for other gear, and that makes jackets out of the same materials, is a bit short sighted in my opinion.
I was just looking at the white 99s cloth jacket again. Completely different construction on the shoulders and arm attachment. A totally different design on the one piece arms as well . Not even close to the leather jacket design.
Show me the jacket she wears in the catalog , then story over .
Well as we all said, it was probably a one off / contracted jacket so of course... no catalog image would be available.
I never said it was a production jacket. We have not seen another one so that points to a private contracted jacket she had made.
There is documented evidence that points us in the direction of Air Associates Inc. Where's the documented evidence that suggests a different maker?
You can't really expect me to tell you what we (think) we've spotted while we are working on a possible repro, and as we are never likely to find out it's all suposition anyway. It just looks to us as if a cloth manufacturer is at least as likely as Spalding or AAI
Nobody can be ruled in or out neither any leather nor cloth manufacturer, as far as Aero's version goes it matters not to us as we'd label it Aero if it ever goes into production
Rolled seams were and still are widely used in cloth manufacturing, the 99 jacket has rolled seams on the arms and shoulder but double top stitched.
As to why she would go to a cloth manufacturer to make a leather flight jacket when there were companies making them in leather already, ....she was working with at least one at the time.......also that's what Levi's always did and Aero don't send our Cloth jackets out, our leather machinists make then in house....and now I think of it, I'll bet a proper cloth tailor would look at an Aero cloth jacket and say "That looks as if it was made by a leather tailor!"
Fair enough. We all have to create this type of reproduction in the way we believe is accurate to the way it was made. We can only work off of available images and examples of similar jackets from the period in this case. I am interested to see your effort!
I have also identified some things that the past reproductions have missed. It will be interesting to see how the 2 jackets come out.
All The Best,
When was the first time she was spotted wearing this jacket (what year ?) . Secondly aircraft transitioned from open cockpit to to heated fuselages . No more bulky big Coats leather pants , there was a lady flyer who name escapes me after breaking some record would get out of the plane looking like a fashion model (she would quickly change from flying gear to fashion clothes 1930s ). My point being ladies wanted to be ladies flying the feminine side of the flyer needed to be maintained . Women were just starting to make headway in the equality side of life ,not look like oddball tomboys emulating men . I maintain the jacket was designed by a woman and probably made like a woman to make the wearer look like a woman . Having Spalding and Air Assoc get in volved would have people tell you no that not the way ,I mean could you imagine the resistance women went through to fly . Most went overseas to get their license probably bought there helmets there also . Companies had not grasped advertising ,getting their product out to the world .Not one plane had advertising ,why would they be interested making one jacket for a Lady flyer . Today Look at the tour de France ,motor racing ,football ,taxis ,Highway bill boards etc etc . The time was 4 years after the crash if you still had money you could do many things this was of course the minority of the people . The lady was a bit detached from life sort of let them eat cake deal , I mean to start up a clothing company in 1933 to fund her flying escapes probably set her back in the red . I am with Ken on this and I say Skyhawk you should not put the Air Assoc label on you product it should be your label or a repro of her label with the plane .Why give credit for a product Air Assoc never made .
best as i can tell, amelia was pretty flat chested, without much in the way of hips. the pocket placement and nearly straight down silhouette of her jacket would not be an issue given her build, however for most women today the design does not seem to be very practical.....well maybe for runway models it would be,,but then again, most gals are not runway models. i would think that any design of a leather"historical flying" jacket would have to be full in the chest and hips, and i would imagine that graduated sizing for fuller, less fuller, taller, shorter, gals would be a nightmare. frankly, i see this as a tough nut to crack.
I agree with Vic, it's Coke bottled shaped all the way for me too.
Its gone very quiet with Headwind still nothing to show us yet ? . Its been 4 months since we heard from you Jay what's shakin buddy .
Looks like the project is D.O.A.
Anyone got one of these wrapped under their tree?
As a mater of fact, I'm picking up the prototype today! So yes. Photos to follow after the holiday weekend....
Here's a sneak peek from the production floor:
oh crap - looks like this could be good!!!!! I am very interested in this style of jacket!!!!
How about a picture of the complete jacket?
I'm a fan too!
Thanks for the interest guys! I will be posting full detail photos after the holiday weekend.
Hey guys, I have some preliminary photos to share of the Aviatrix. We are still finishing this one so the grommets have not been put into the zipper base yet. You may notice some details on this jacket that have not been included on past reproductions of this jacket. The most significant detail is the gusseted armpit design. The original had the gussets. They are hard to see in the photos of the original jacket, but if you look close they are there. I also procured NOS 1930's Casein buttons for this jacket, and it is topped off with the period correct reproduction Hookless zipper.
I guess I'm the first one to get here .....looks great!
What kind of hide is it?
Is it in russet only or seal as well?
What's going to be the price point on this one?
You probably should expect a bunch more questions by tomorrow.