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AVI LTHR BRONCO A-2 Jacket Review & Pics

ties70

Well-Known Member
Man!!
I can’t believe that this thread started out with a simple review of a jacket that someone liked and wanted to tell us about and 14 pages of comments later here we are. Not really sure what that says about us as a group other than do we all have a little too much free time on our hands?

Guys,

spending so much time and posts on this thread actually shows this (at least for me):

1. If you post something, you should be able to accept that others here have a different opinion.

2. We should not see this different opinion as a personal attack.

3. If it was meant as a personal attack or sounds like one, we should not be surprised that the other side "bites back".

4. BUT: This forum is much more civilized than it was years ago. We filled 14 pages of thread without personal insults, no one demanded others to be expelled ....that was different some (long) time ago, when member's "right" even to join a discussion was disputed by others. I remember when one member criticized me and thought I was a newbie and not even entitled to have an opinion, not to mention a different one.

This said, I think we really had a grown-up discussion here in the last days....Way to go, VLJ!

Ties
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
a1_avi-jpg.5527


Personally, the cut of the authentic A-1 on the right isn't the best either - look at the tautness of that cape around the chest/collar/first button...
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
Guys,

spending so much time and posts on this thread actually shows this (at least for me):

1. If you post something, you should be able to accept that others here have a different opinion.

2. We should not see this different opinion as a personal attack.

3. If it was meant as a personal attack or sounds like one, we should not be surprised that the other side "bites back".

4. BUT: This forum is much more civilized than it was years ago. We filled 14 pages of thread without personal insults, no one demanded others to be expelled ....that was different some (long) time ago, when member's "right" even to join a discussion was disputed by others. I remember when one member criticized me and thought I was a newbie and not even entitled to have an opinion, not to mention a different one.

This said, I think we really had a grown-up discussion here in the last days....Way to go, VLJ!

Ties

Well said Ties, I recall a time fairly recently when the only posts on VLJ were ones asking why there were no posts or one's berating any newbie.
As a teenage I loved Speakers Corner on a Sunday
 

Thomas Koehle

Well-Known Member
@Smithy Thanks for the notes. I take this as an opportunity to change my stance while helping you see that I'm not hostile to AVI supporters:

- I share your sentiment about overpricing from premium brands.

- I'm starting to think that AVI was already reading the forum when the provenance issue was raised (Cannot prove it so it's my individual, unfounded speculation).

- Ken's competitors are premium brands not low- to mid-entry players; I think he's defending what he believes to be the right way to do business. I happen to share his belief and I support symmetry in transaction rather than asymmetry.

- I don't believe in freedom of choice as some of you interpreted it, because we all have the responsibility for our actions (the closest analogy I can think of is that a child cannot be free without some discipline from the parents); but I believe you and everyone is entitled to his or her opinions and actions, buying decisions, and the right to express your agreement/disagreement with anyone.

- My point of view is that I cannot be sure I don't kill a few ants every time I go for a walk, but if I saw an ant, I would make sure I did not step on it. Man, I grew up in China and have done plenty bad to the planet and seen some bad aspects of society. Nobody can be 100% environmental friendly or fair trade, but when we see something wrong, I believe and hope that each and everyone of us can do something about it.

- But just because I believe in the point above does not mean I demand you or anyone on the forum to do what I believe in. If someone finds my opinion agreeable, great; if not, that's perfectly fine! It's about me, my choice, my responsibility for the planet and others, and my buying decisions. It's not about you but it might sting some people because I point to the more difficult aspect of consumerism, responsibility vs. desire (often under tight budget).

- All I ask is we can keep debating or discussing friendly and disclosing information so all can see and read before buying. Hope this clarifies it!

Well said!
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
Hello fellow flight jacket enthusiasts,
If you’re bored with this thread, don’t blame you… move on.
This is for those that are interested in AVI’s position on the above, and some hints on whats to come.
(Please gents, this is not intended as an invitation to throw more accusations or imagined speculations about fluff.)
Grab a coffee/ tea/ A-2.

So. I’ve been corresponding with AVI last week and this week (and Five Star Leathers) and wanted pass on some info. The below are my words, based on my understandings and I’m only posting this because I felt a touch of responsibility, being the OP.

AVI is not interested in getting involved in these discussions or debates. They have no presence on these lounges, except when guys post pics and reviews of their jackets.
They would prefer to focus on what they are doing, and let their jackets speak for themselves.
They understand that many on these forums are passionate guys, just wanting to share their interest in these things and everyone has a perspective.
Not everyone is as detailed-orientated as some of us here on the Lounges, so our feedback is welcome.
They are passionate about what they are doing and are constantly looking for ways to improve (valid, constructive feedback is always appreciated, pls email them directly).
Their mission is, and has always been, too make the best original-maker flight jackets they can, while still keeping them reasonably priced.

They are Denmark-based, jackets are manufactured in Pakistan, sent back to Denmark for distribution.
Manufacturer has been around quite some time and supplies many business around the world, incl AVI LTHR and Five Star Leathers… to name only a few…
They don’t sell to the public.
Five Star Leathers is a customer of this manufacturer, not a part of it.

AVI LTHR obtained an original Bronco A-2 and 55J14 G-1, and proceeded to study them and the patterns/ details etc… Then sourced the best hardware and components they could get, sent these to manufacturer in Pakistan.
The manufacturer then made test jackets to approve, before the actual production jackets.
These patterns ‘somehow’ then found their way onto the manufacturer’s ‘catalogue’ and made available to other companies, even though AVI had written agreements with them.
So, some G-1 and Bronco-like jackets may be found elsewhere, (probably not for long), but these will not have the same leather, specially produced spec label, CARR snaps, throat hooks, stamps, single ply knit and M-39 Talon Zipper as AVI’s Bronco (at least they should not have)…
AVI was not aware of this, until a couple of us made them aware of it, by emailing them to ask about all this last week. (So, some good has come from this thread).
They are taking this very seriously.
AVI actually purchased the M-39 zippers specially for use with their jackets. Some of these have also ‘found’ their way onto other jackets, incl the G-1 Ken procured. (nice!)
In fact, that G-1, is an update-in-progress jacket of AVI’s where they are upgrading the zipper and also the knit, to authentic single ply rib-rack (this has not yet arrived, so this updated G-1 is still in process and will be available only later this year).
So, manufacturer sent Ken a spec jacket and used the seamless seal knit used on the current AVI Seal Bronco, (and likely with one of AVI’s Talon zips also).
This is not a jacket that should be available through Five Star leathers or any other online retailer.
Although no-one owns rights to producing an G-1 or A-2 repro, or using Talon zippers, repro mouton etc... its seems all AVI's hard work and investment has been passed on nimbly-nimbly, by the manufacturer to other jacket retailers, most of whom wouldn't know a G-1 55J14 from a 'bomber', or a Bronco from a camel (in fact FSL refers to the zippers as brass or silver ;) ... they don't know about 'seamed' cuffs, only that they are good quality).
AVI and manufacturer are in process of resolving these ‘issues’… (I'm sure they are!... super sigh!)

AVI is taking it all in stride.
They have sourced another goatskin supplier, both seal and russet, closely matched with their original Bronco and original Perry A-2, which they recon will be used in future jackets.
In fact, they are looking at a veg tanned goatskin with an aniline finish, they seem very excited about (will this be in both seal and russet, will the Bronco be updated in this also or just for the Perry, I'm not sure...)
They do not plan on making horsehide jackets.
They have also sourced more authentic single ply knits for future jackets...
They are very serious about the quality of their jackets and customer satisfaction, and say their jackets will be improved upon, as an when they source better leather and hardware, etc.
They are also sourcing a possible new manufacturer (not surprised…).
Danish law requires their jackets to have 'care labels' inside, but not required to have 'made in' labels. They are looking into this, and may incl such labels in future jackets, but are also aware originals did not have such labels... They may incl labels that can be removed/ cut out etc...

They have acquired an original WW2 Perry A-2 and this is progressing very well. They really want this one to go out as close to the original as possible. To the extent, they are even looking at the correct period CARR snaps that are found on said WW2 Perry! This jacket will be the next A-2 release, available in both the updated russet and seal goatskin (assume the new veg tanned anilin goat...).
Still a few months out is my understanding.
There were hints of a couple more jackets, but didn’t get any more info, except that they were hoping to get these ready for the winter season! (what could these be!!!!?)

Again, I stand by the quality and detailing of my jackets. They may not be 100% accurate (at the mo), but they are not too far off, in fact they are great!!! They certainly look and fit right. Not to mention (again) waaayyy below the cost of many high-end jackets.
The fact that many of us are even critiquing and comparing them to originals, Goodwears and Eastmans etc is high praise already, although these jackets are not (yet) in the same league.
No one else is seriously trying to make quality original-maker jackets, of reasonable authenticity, at an affordable price.
AVI seems dedicated to doing so.
All the 'feedback' will only help them make better jackets, which is a good thing. We all win at the end of the day.
If you are curious or interested in one of their jackets, try one. If not, don’t. Easy.
If you have any queries or concerns, please don't assume, speculate or accuse... contact the company directly and then let us know the feedback.

I have already requested a Perry. Seal or Russet? I know originals came in both, although russet is more common.
Dunno, may try both… keep the one I prefer.
Thats all folks. Moving on from this....
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
I'm no longer looking to buy flying jackets really at this stage, but I still have a soft spot for the Perry pattern and I'll be very interested to see how this one turns out.
 

Greg Gale

Well-Known Member
AVI is on an amazing journey that all of us can benefit from. Looking forward to what else they have up their sleeves! I'm secretly hoping for sheepskin jackets such as a B-3 or an Irvin...
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
yes. I hope attention is paid to the unique collar (although not too rounded) and pocket profiles... That will make it or break it for me over correct snaps...
For me, the pattern (so correct drape and fit) and leather and prime factors.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
AVI is on an amazing journey that all of us can benefit from. Looking forward to what else they have up their sleeves! I'm secretly hoping for sheepskin jackets such as a B-3 or an Irvin...
We should make a poll... What jacket will AVI launch for winter ;)
I am hoping for an M422a... They already have the G-1, should be able to take those 'tricks' and apply to an M422a. B-3 would be different. B-10? B-15?
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
John has a pretty good description on his site. No one else makes a Perry repro besides John (GW), (though Aeroleather make a 1756, which I understand to have been made by Perry)...
As for appearances, they have a unique collar profile, with collar stand, often with bluntish tips. Also had rather rounded scalloped pocket flap profile.
I'm pleased AVI is doing something different and not another Roughwear (although its one of the best looking A-2s imo, there are many repros of it)...
 

Smithy

Well-Known Member
A B-3 would be fun to see if they can source some really nice looking and robust sheepskin.

Hopefully Morten picks up a few more original A-2s as I'd also like to see a Doniger and a Dubow. Doniger would make sense seeing as they apparently only used goatskin.
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
B-3 or a D-1... Theres a Doniger 42 on GW's sale page. Looks amazing.
I'd love to see another Monarch, or even a 1756... but these are not a patterns that will suit everyone. Dubows always welcome ;)
 

Brettafett

Well-Known Member
I'm not an economist, neither do I run a manufacturing business. Neither do I want too. Just want a cool flight jacket ;)
But let me take a simplistic, idealistic and clearly ingnoramic gander...
Take your std FSL 'Bronco' (assuming lining and stamps are the same) - Add a different goatskin from stock skins, add correctly sourced single ply knits, sourced CARR snaps, throat hooks etc, a specially created and made up Bronco label and a specially procured M-39 talon zipper.
Add those costs to said jacket, then return postage to Denmark. Add import duties and taxes and whatevers - from where they no doubt get checked and then sent out to customers.
Add costs associated with running a premises, staff and website in Denmark.
Anyway, they are making a product I like at a price I can afford.
That, and in Scotland a cup of coffee costs £2.60. In Denmark the same cup of coffee will set you back £4.
Dunno. Its a fun game though....
 

Dr H

Well-Known Member
John has a pretty good description on his site. No one else makes a Perry repro besides John (GW), (though Aeroleather make a 1756, which I understand to have been made by Perry)...
As for appearances, they have a unique collar profile, with collar stand, often with bluntish tips. Also had rather rounded scalloped pocket flap profile.
I'm pleased AVI is doing something different and not another Roughwear (although its one of the best looking A-2s imo, there are many repros of it)...

Personally, I'd differentiate the 1756 no name (Perry) from the 23377 (goat) and 16175-P (horsehide) contracts as the late war 1756 looks like such a rushed contract (all the images that I have seen look roughly constructed and less well cut).
It's a comfortable contract to wear, without being too blousy. I particularly like the smaller, rounded collar tips, the deeply scalloped pocket flaps and the relatively narrow sleeve profile.

Type_A2_Jacket.jpg
 

Ken at Aero Leather

Well-Known Member
I'm not an economist,
That, and in Scotland a cup of coffee costs £2.60. In Denmark the same cup of coffee will set you back £4.
Dunno. Its a fun game though....
How much is it in Pakistan?

Take a moment to look at this happy bunch
https://www.facebook.com/pg/エアロレザーク...8/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1355131661220918
They are all on well over a UK living wage, would they look so happy on the wages AVI's workers must be getting paid

And Smithy is critisising Aero and ELC for our prices......tut tut
 
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